Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#461

Post by Goosee » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

firefoxd wrote: post #37

This is anecdotal but I'm sure many people are seen this increasingly. In the past 10 years on the job, I'm seeing more guys make jokes about how stupid they are. Every time they make a single mistake they say "oh my God, if my head wasn't attached to my shoulders..." Then it becomes a competition of who has done the dumbest thing. I know it's just being playful, but you rarely see the opposite. Turn the tables, I wa…

> I don't ever remember a girl telling me how dumb she is.

Thats because girls blame it on their *astrological sign*

In all seriousness, I truly believe girls mature way earlier than guys. Just look at insurance rates.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#462

Post by supergirl » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

so many sexists on HN, it's surprising. whenever there is a thread about some differences in genders, it gets bombarded with "men are actually the ones being oppressed" comments.

just look at this thread. 400 comments in 3 hours. it's because of the title. the idea that girls are doing better than boys triggered a whole mob. pretty worrying.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#463

Post by kaitai » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

finder83 wrote: post #240

endisneigh wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this explains why women are capable of following these rules and men are not. Are you saying men are biologically predisposed to not follow such simple rules?

When the rules are to "sit still" and "be quiet", yes, probably so. Boys are diagnosed with ADHD at a rate of 12.9% vs 5.6% for girls [1]. I've heard many counselors and psychologists (in my counseling program) suggest that many cases are misdiagnosed. Sit in any classroom or ask any teacher who their problem children are, and they're almost always boys. They're louder, more violent, more likely to disobey, and have…

Honestly, as an educator and a parent, I find the "sit still and conform" nature of school quite frustrating even though I did fine with it. I'm female, and I do think that part of my doing fine with it is that I quietly went off to break the rules and because I was a "good kid" (white, female, high grades) no one even bothered to check on me to discover my extracurricular sins. But I want better for my kid than quietly and efficiently producing the answers the teacher wants to hear. That approach does not lead to excellence in science, mathematics, or the arts. It doesn't even serve those who do well in the system. What, after all, are the benefits to these girls who do well in school? All that education just to get jobs that pay worse? It's a racket.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#464

Post by analog31 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #283

analog31 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it's typing. I've seen the difference in kids. I think readability may be one issue, but perhaps even more important is that if writing is physically awkward and painful, it leads to writing fewer words and doing fewer edits. My own experience was that learning to type, thanks to getting interested in programming, was game changing. All I can say is that I could write lengthy essays and reports in a jiffy. Sti…

> Today, it's typing. Not for math, at least not for my kids. I was helping my son with his high school physics homework a few days ago, and IMO his poor handwriting was a genuine impediment to his mathematical problem-solving.

That's true. My college freshman physics teacher took me aside after the first couple of assignments and said: "You'd make fewer mistakes if you could read your own handwriting."

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#465

Post by throwgender123 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:27 PM UTC

PoignardAzur wrote: post #429

throwgender123 wrote: post #212

I've noticed throughout my life that negative outcomes that primarily affect females (math test scores, wage gap, etc) are Huge Problems That Demand Immediate Action, and negative outcomes that primarily affect males (language test scores, life expectancy gap) are just kind of how it is. I'm not bitching about it or pushing an agenda, but it's not subtle.

Eh, I think it will average out eventually. New political currents hate ambiguity and nuance. If you're trying to motivate people to rise up against the Empire, the last thing you want to hear is people saying "Okay, but some imperial officers are actually good people, and this Saw Guerrera is a sadistic monster", even though both are true. Eventually, once the Rebellion becomes widespread enough, people start saying…

> Eh, I think it will average out eventually.

I agree, which is why I'm not bitching about it. But it's also kind of sad. I have a young son, and even at 5yo he has seen enough "yay girls!" messages in books and cartoons to deduce that there's something wrong with being a boy.

It's also a good example of the societal construction of concepts like "oppression". The idea that women earning less for the same work is a huge problem, and that men doing more dangerous jobs and dying younger isn't, is a subjective choice we've made. And the problem isn't so much that it's wrong, but that we don't have to choose. We could decide that they're both problems, but we don't. And I think the reason has a lot to do with the heavily-downvoted sibling comment saying, "Well, we worry about the oppressed people, and men aren't oppressed."

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#466

Post by anotherman554 » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

twgp123 wrote: post #180

Throwaway because this is one of the data points you are required to ignore in polite society. Girls receive better grades until you blind the teachers. Teachers are biased in favor of girls, maybe because their behavior is better. The effect of biased grading is enormous and a huge disadvantage to our boys. > Gender-biased grading accounts for 21 percent of boys falling behind girls in math during middle school. [1]…

You are citing a study that isn't peer reviewed as a "data point" but when you summarize it like that looks like a factual claim when no factual conclusion should be drawn.

It would be an interesting data point if there was any particularly reason to believe the document you cited would hold up to further study.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#467

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

teilo wrote: post #451

TeMPOraL wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the medication. If they're on stims in particular, and the meds actually improve their behavior, then the cause most likely isn't insufficient PE time.

Non sequitur

But it is, because we're talking about persistent deficiency of certain neurotransmitters in the brain, that's most likely[0] due to different brain makeup. You can't do enough PE to mitigate this and have enough energy left for everything else.

--

[0] - I say "most likely" because I didn't investigate the claims that MRI can pick up on the difference. But from my initial difference, the effect is still hereditary, in at least large part genetic.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#468

Post by powersnail » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

zionic wrote: post #337

908B64B197 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With shrinking recess time and PE disappearing from some schools, I also wonder if a lot of this is caused by boys having more energy and needing more movement than girls. Energy has to go somewhere so it ends up manifesting itself in behaviors that are deemed "disruptive" (really, not sitting still and being unable to concentrate on tasks). Maybe it's something that female administrators and teachers fail to underst…

Future generations will consider us barbarians for dosing our young boys with drugs because we providing them with physical education/exercise was inconvenient to us. They'll also be able to datamine the internet from this time period and use our own words to hang us.

I hope that's what will happen. It means that the future will not need to dose people with drugs. We'll have created a world where people's natural physique is mostly enough for living a happy life.

In a darker vision, the future society will be more heavily dependent on drugs, regardless of age.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#469

Post by kaitai » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #274

finder83 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the rules are to "sit still" and "be quiet", yes, probably so. Boys are diagnosed with ADHD at a rate of 12.9% vs 5.6% for girls [1]. I've heard many counselors and psychologists (in my counseling program) suggest that many cases are misdiagnosed. Sit in any classroom or ask any teacher who their problem children are, and they're almost always boys. They're louder, more violent, more likely to disobey, and have…

I don't disagree with any of your assertions, but it remains a mystery how women then are excluded from top jobs if they do better in middle school through college and are less likely to be diagnosed with something that would impair their job performance.

It's not a mystery to me. If I want to excel at my job, I have to be willing to tell my boss he's full of shit and then elbow someone else out of line to get my idea implemented. This is not what I practiced in school for all that time and it's not what I get rewarded for in the rest of my life.

Men get the "benefit" of bimodal outcomes, in that they're disproportionately represented in the highest-paying jobs and in prison. Women get the steady middle, doing what needs to be done but less big risk/big reward. I'm dissatisfied with it on both sides. A system in which 'overactive' boys (or kids more generally) are not served well is not good, and a system that optimizes for the wrong outcome for 'good' girls is not good. It's clearly not doing that well for America given our susceptibility to mis- and disinformation and our need to import skills rather than effectively developing talent here.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#470

Post by Wolfenstein98k » Tue, Mar 09, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

And the gap is only growing.

There's a budding problem for gender equality growing, and it's not the usual story.

We're not quite ready to talk about it openly though, without the stated cause being toxic masculinity or something - as if that's a problem that has been getting worse, not better, and is somehow only now taking its biggest toll on boys under 15 (and even under 5).

Alas, the answer must be doubling-down on that narrative and pumping the boys who can't function like girls full of ADHD meds - I was on Ritalin before age 12, and it does "solve the problem" to a workable enough degree for everyone to keep on keeping on.