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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy this argument as the law currently stands, but this is also such a moral double standard (Colorado bakery for instance). Also, how far do we go with this reasoning? Stripe and PayPal refuse service so they're supposed to "Go build their own" (it costs billions to create a new service like stripe or PayPal that can compare). AWS shut you down? Build your own data center... (Again, costs millions or billions). Wh…

Actually I think you might have the Colorado case misrepresented here. The baker was ruled in favor due to objecting based on his religious beliefs. Part of this was that he was okay with baking a cake for the gay couple but NOT one that had certain messaging that would violate his faith. [1] If the baker had altogether refused to bake a cake for the gay couple, it would have been discrimination on a protected class.…

> The baker was ruled in favor due to objecting based on his religious beliefs.

No, he was ruled in favor of because the US Supreme Court found anti-religious animus in the enforcement process leading to the State ruling against him.

> Part of this was that he was okay with baking a cake for the gay couple but NOT one that had certain messaging that would violate his faith.

No, it wasn't. The decision specifically notes that he objected to being required to make cakes for same sex weddings entirely, on both free speech and free exercise of religion grounds [0], not that he was willing to do so dependent on messaging, so any such willingness he might have had was not a basis of the decision.

Instead, the Court found animus toward Phillips’ religious views by the state commission that found against him, both expressed in the process and evidenced through difference in how Phillips was treated vs. other bakers in similar cases before the same Commission, which mean that whether or not the law could otherwise have been enforced against him, the specific government act had an impermissible purpose, requiring it to be struck down. [1]

Note: All quotes from Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 U.S. ___ (2018)

[0] “Phillips raised two constitutional claims before the ALJ. He first asserted that applying CADA in a way that would require him to create a cake for a same-sex wedding would violate his First Amendment right to free speech by compelling him to exercise his artistic talents to express a message with which he disagreed. [...] Phillips also contended that requiring him to create cakes for same-sex weddings would violate his right to the free exercise of religion, also protected by the First Amendment.”

[1] “The official expressions of hostility to religion in some of the commissioners’ comments—comments that were not disavowed at the Commission or by the State at any point in the proceedings that led to affirmance of the order—were inconsistent with what the Free Exercise Clause requires. The Commission’s disparate consideration of Phillips’ case compared to the cases of the other bakers suggests the same. For these reasons, the order must be set aside.”

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#462
post #64

Not to be reductionist but I don’t see this as a totalitarian issue. This is a free market decision. $Company decides to sever ties with another organization. That choice can be good, bad, reactive, overreactive, misguided, etc but it’s still a market participant choice. Market remains open for other market participants to make other choices.

https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1347970421161922560

does this make you reconsider at all?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop downplaying a literally terrorist attack on the nation's Capitol.

Why aren't you blaming the security at the capital? Isn't it there fault the rioters got as far as they did?

The security at the capitol was deliberately limited, probably to allow exactly this to happen and probably by the orders of Trump himself. The investigation over this will seal the deal on which higher ups get charged.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#464
post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't you blaming the security at the capital? Isn't it there fault the rioters got as far as they did?

The security at the capitol was deliberately limited, probably to allow exactly this to happen and probably by the orders of Trump himself. The investigation over this will seal the deal on which higher ups get charged.

Limited by who? I doubt trump's people could have considered this a legit coup opportunity.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#465

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

> But political affiliation is not a protected class.

Perhaps these bans are happening not because of political affiliation but due to the messages these particular people (e.g., Trump) are espousing.

Parler go banned because it's full of message calling for (e.g.) Mike Pence to be hanged and other such things, and Parler isn't / can't do much about it, and its infrastructure providers (AWS, app stores) do not want any part of it per their ToS.

No one has cut off Mitch McConnell because he hasn't been calling forth angry mobs to storm Congress (or the White House).

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#466
post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The security at the capitol was deliberately limited, probably to allow exactly this to happen and probably by the orders of Trump himself. The investigation over this will seal the deal on which higher ups get charged.

Limited by who? I doubt trump's people could have considered this a legit coup opportunity.

The president, the defense secretary, we'll find out once an investigation is conducted.

> I doubt trump's people could have considered this a legit coup opportunity.

They were minutes away from killing elected representatives.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#467
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the more concerning tactics I've witnessed over the past few years that Trump and other parts of the GOP rhetoric machine were using in service of lying to people.. Convincing people who don't understand very well their rights, democracy, civics, and etc that their RIGHTS were being infringed; by others exercising their rights. "Stop The Steal" is just another flavor of conflating 1st amendment "freedom of spe…

> Convincing people who don't understand very well their rights, democracy, civics, and etc that their RIGHTS were being infringed; by others exercising their rights. I dont think we need to infantilize Trump supporters. They are capable of evaluating claims made by the GOP.

Unfortunately I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that a large percentage of people across the political spectrum lack basic civics knowledge.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#468
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limited by who? I doubt trump's people could have considered this a legit coup opportunity.

The president, the defense secretary, we'll find out once an investigation is conducted. > I doubt trump's people could have considered this a legit coup opportunity. They were minutes away from killing elected representatives.

> They were minutes away from killing elected representatives.

For that to be true the people invading the capital would need to have intent to kill, weapons, and minutes access to those representatives. How many of those things are proven to be true?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#469

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

How is AWS anything like an “utility”? There are hundreds of viable hosting options for large sites.

some previous names for cloud compute entities were "grid compute" and "utility computing". some veneer of old-school small fries still exist thank the stars but absolutely, more & more of the internet is powered by the hyperscalers. absolutely terrifying seeing the scales keep tilting heavier & heavier towards fewer & fewer options.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#470
post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

Please make your points more substantively than this. Your comment is the fulcrum tipping this thread into flamewar, and that's because the ratio of grandiosity-plus-inflammation to information in it is super high (high is bad).

(I'd make the same reply if you were arguing this way for the opposite position, in case anyone is still worried about that.)

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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