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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#461

Post by not_a_moth »

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

> What else can they do if they are really innocent?

They can choose to ignore the NYT, since during the trump years it's been laid bare that they're a political publication.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#462

Post by MetalGuru »

adjkant wrote: post #258
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there other non-crypto political stances Coinbase has taken? It seems to me that this was just the first time they needed such a policy. I certainly wouldn't have anticipated the possibility of a new political slogan that almost every major company is forced to chant.

Many companies regularly work within mainstream political action such as LGTBQ+ rights, data privacy, homelessness, local housing or public works, and children's orgs such as Big Brother Big Sister. While these vary in controversiality, relevancy, and apolitical nature, it's not at all uncommon to see companies working in these areas (and others unlisted). Often companies grow into them along with size and profits, s…

He’s asking specifically about Coinbase. Referencing how “most companies” do things isn’t relevant to his question.

And can you explain to me why one is absolutely required to publicly vocalize their stance on the George Floyd issue? How is not wanting to speak on the topic in the workplace equivalent to being racist?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#463

Post by nickpp »

bra-ket wrote: post #421
sonotathrowaway wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was treated as a disaster - they labeled the leavers as “political” and announced they instituted policies to prevent future “political” employees.

It's a private company, they can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't violate the law. And if there is a legal case against them the accuser has the burden of proof and due process. All I see from this article is a bunch of hearsay & rumors. It looks like a smear campaign to get some quick 'reparations' by riding a popular trend. We have this thing in the US called presumption of innocence, but apparently in c…

Let’s not forget that Coinbase took that no-politics stance while NYT is a company thriving on politics drama. Also, legacy media companies have an axe to grind with the high tech industry which lately is their direct competitor for ad money.

Bottom line, New York Times is heavily biased and has zero credibility when it comes to their coverage of the high tech industry. This is a hit piece.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#464

Post by enumjorge »

roenxi wrote: post #191
xenadu02 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've never done this sort of thing before: there's a huge market for these "external consultants". Their unstated job (and reputations) are as whitewashing firms. You hire them to ensure there is "no evidence" of anything done wrong. The primary purpose is to create a credible defense in lawsuits but PR purposes are also common. Firms that find problems suddenly see their business dry up because most companies d…

To repeat the grandparent, what else can they do? Many of the "issues" bought up in this article aren't even problematic. It says John Russ left because Armstrong took public stance that he wanted Coinbase to focus on crypto space stuff. Coinbase's stance there is fair, reasonable and moral. It is desirable that some companies just do what it says on the tin. If Russ had a reason for quitting that was race-related th…

You took one example and ignored the rest. It’s not like NYT wrote this article simply because Russ left. What about the employees who were asked to be present for photo shoots to show workplace diversity but who felt ignored and talked down to during meetings? That sounds problematic. If it were a couple of employees it’s one thing but when most of your black employees leave because of what they feel is racism in the workplace that’s harder to ignore. It doesn’t necessarily prove there was racism, but it’s certainly a red flag.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#465

Post by prionassembly »

adjkant wrote: post #370
aparsons wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it not he argued that the recent phenomenon of cancelling / treating those accused of these acts as criminals and trying to ruin their livelihoods, means applying a criminal level of evidence is warranted?

No. We have played this argument out and I'd love to get over beating this dead horse, here and all over the tech industry. Go look elsewhere in the comments. Fantastical conspiracy webs ("trying to ruin their livelihoods") require according evidence, not refutation. We have a slew of people on the record, and direct response from Coinbase. Not to mention that no one is getting "cancelled" here. The bigger conversati…

Do you want to have that bigger conversation, or are you tired?

Is the assertion that you’re tired expected to lend weight to the version (that cancel culture is a bogus notion) for which you’re evoking (but not presenting) a defense?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#466

Post by enumjorge »

xvector wrote: post #398
aspaceman wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But no one is being forcibly shut down here. The debate is happening. It occurs. But then someone makes a comment like above: “is all this debate really necessary?” and the response is “this is censorship”. I would agree that some viewpoints are silenced in public contexts. But insofar as this conversation, I don’t see anyone being cancelled or shut down for an opinion. That just seems like a defensive reaction to me…

> But no one is being forcibly shut down here But they are. If you are skeptical of the claims in the article, then apparently you have taken a “depressing” (incorrect/intolerant) stance.

Describing a stance as “depressing” seems like a ridiculously low bar for something to count as a forcible shut down.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#467

Post by secondcoming »

kaitai wrote: post #322
blub wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When accusations of racism are being thrown around carelessly and people are having their reputations destroyed and lives turned upside down because of a single thing they (allegedly) said, the potential future targets of these accusations realize that the stakes just became much higher for them. So why would they support and enable those that might come for their own heads next? It's rational to be antagonistic in s…

I understand that people feel threatened by accusations of racism, but we should subject those feelings to the same scrutiny that fear of vaccines, fear of blood transfusions, fears of child kidnapping, fear of having our child trafficked for sex, and various fears of violence are subjected to. If we look at data, we find that many of our fears are not calibrated to probability of occurrence or even to the expected v…

Because it's impossible to prove you're not a racist.

I could claim that you have a sexual interest in children. Good luck proving you don't. Would you just 'apologise and do better next time'?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#468

Post by evan_ »

xenihn wrote: post #446
oh_sigh wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I fully understand your point, but it might be worth adjusting your language a little bit to account for a quirk of our language(in that Chinese could refer to the nationality, or the government): I assume your problem with Zoom is its association with the CCP , and not just that it is merely Chinese.

Conspiracy theory time: That's not a quirk with our language, there's a deliberate lack of distinction between the country and the people. During the Cold War, you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality. We don't have a modern equivalent for the PRC, and that's because someone wants it that way. It'd be trivial for a new term to be pushed through media, but…

> you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality.

The demonym for the people who lived in the Soviet Union was “Soviet.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#469

Post by baryphonic »

i-write-comment wrote: post #353
baryphonic wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the end of the day, the best thing for Coinbase employees to do is to jump ship to a competitor (I for one, am happy to give a referral to any Coinbase employee who is leaving due to all this) - but absolutely vile that they would try to buy-out all POC in the company. What makes you think POC are equivalent with woke activists? That seems a bit like stereotyping to me. It also seems to contradict actual data.[1…

This comment is a good example of an insidious trend that has existed throughout America's history, which tries to offload any agitation against racial discrimination onto white outsiders. In the past, race riots and protests were often blamed on Northern abolitionists, communists and Jews, basically "white agitators who aren't from here". You see this same trend today, when protests are blamed on Soros-paid white ag…

> It's intended to mollify any concerns of well-meaning whites that POC might actually really be upset with racial discrimination, and actually want significant change beyond superficial proposals.

First, you have no idea of my intent, because I didn't tell you. Second, what you allege to be my intent is not my intent. Third, conceding for the sake of argument that you were right about my intent, why is it that the measured facts totally contradict your narrative, i.e. those who want radical change appear to be overwhelmingly white and particularly non-black?

Are you one of those who think logic and data are tools of the white oppressor?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#470

Post by adjkant »

prionassembly wrote: post #465
adjkant wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We have played this argument out and I'd love to get over beating this dead horse, here and all over the tech industry. Go look elsewhere in the comments. Fantastical conspiracy webs ("trying to ruin their livelihoods") require according evidence, not refutation. We have a slew of people on the record, and direct response from Coinbase. Not to mention that no one is getting "cancelled" here. The bigger conversati…

Do you want to have that bigger conversation, or are you tired? Is the assertion that you’re tired expected to lend weight to the version (that cancel culture is a bogus notion) for which you’re evoking (but not presenting) a defense?

No, it's a commentary on how much lifting is expected to be done by each side in a good faith discussion and the imbalance exhibited all over the current discussion. Everyone has the same tools - if you want to understand the perspective you asked for, you can absolutely do that!

Here, I grabbed a link off Google for you with one perspective: https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2020/07/cancel-cul...

If you prefer less meat but a more known publishing house: https://time.com/5735403/cancel-culture-is-not-real/

If you find that worth discussing, I'd say go ahead and submit it to HN!

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