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2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

anandtech.com

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Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#461

Post by adrian_b »

egsmi wrote: post #251
kllrnohj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Zen3 processor that they are comparing it to is the 5950x - the fastest desktop processor with a TDP of 105W. The entire system power of the M1 mini under load was 28W. This is a very misleading statement. They primarily only used the 5950X in single-core tests, and in those tests it doesn't come remotely close to 105W. In fact per Anandtech's own results[1] the 5950X CPU core in a single-core load draws around…

> This is a very misleading statement. They primarily only used the 5950X in single-core tests, and in those tests it doesn't come remotely close to 105W. That’s true but keep in mind this is the power going into the AMD CPU only. The power number measured for the mini was the entire system power pulled from the wall, so that 28W included memory, conversion inefficiencies and everything. That’s crazy.

Actually a significant power, maybe around 20 W, is consumed by the I/O chip, which consumes a lot because it is made in an old process.

In 2021, when the laptop Zen 3 will be introduced, that will have a much better power efficiency, being made all in 7 nm.

Of course, it will still not match the power efficiency of M1, which is due both to its newer 5-nm process and to its lower clock frequency at the same performance.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#462

Post by kllrnohj »

bfgoodrich wrote: post #451
jeswin wrote: post #162

This is as much a ringing endorsement of AMD Ryzen as it is of the M1. The 15W 4800U is just as impressive as the M1, and the performance per watt gap seems small enough to bridge with AMDs upcoming 5nm switch.

AMD definitely is the best of the rest, but it doesn't seem quite as close as it may be held to. In single core tests the 4800u is running that core at 4.2Ghz. Yet it gets soundly bested by the M1 @ 3 - 3.2Ghz (running at a 50%+ advantage, 65%+ clock per clock). The M1 has an enormous IPC advantage. In a multicore test the 4800u has 8 performance cores with HT. It only marginally beats an M1 with 4 performance cores…

> The 4800u on 5nm is only going to be marginally better.

This is definitely not true. We already know Zen 3 is +20% IPC over Zen 2 on the same process at the same power. So add 20% to the 4800U without changing anything else as a starting point.

Then toss in the process improvements from 5nm (which TSMC says is either 15% faster or 30% less power) as well as any further architectural improvements that AMD is doing in Zen 4 and there's going to be a very significant gap between the 4800U and AMD's 5nm 6800U or whatever they end up calling it.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#464

Post by hyperdimension »

toxik wrote: post #29
juliand wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to jump to the article's conclusion.

A jump to conclusions, if you will.

Of course, we'd already know that if only we had a jump to conclusions mat!

It's a shame it wasn't a commercial success.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#465

Post by murukesh_s »

munificent wrote: post #342
xuki wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is the kind of company that will choose to slim down the laptop instead of making it 2 day battery life.

I think that's the right call, honestly. I need to recharge my own wetware at least once a day. So there is a nearly guaranteed several hour idle period where I'm not using any technology and where laptops and phones can be recharging too. I don't see much end user value in not taking advantage of that. It's like if you parked your car literally at a gas station every night anyway. Would you really care about a fuel…

I would want a 2, 3, even 7 day battery. Why not? I don't want to bother about charging every day.

But my worry is that with more and more efficiency in computing and battery tech, if Apple instead decides to reduce the battery capacity? Especially with no competition in sight, or competitors trying to follow Apple, we may end up with smaller batteries instead of more battery life. They seems to be doing that with iPhone. Also 18 hour battery life can quickly degrade to few hours if some processes are spinning the CPU continuously which can happen knowingly or unknowingly with several apps open (Docker occasionally does that to my MBP).

With several days battery life, I can even go for short travels without even bothering about how to charge it.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#466

Post by caycep »

fxtentacle wrote: post #95
d3nj4l wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like most people here haven't seen the SPEC benchmarks AnandTech performed (and they're partly to blame for that; their UX is awful). But the M1 is toe-to-toe with desktop Ryzen: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-teste... E: And multi-core SPEC: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-teste... , where they're on par with mobile Ryzen.

I looked up multi-core Cinebench R23 and the AMD 2990WX comes in at 33,213 vs. 7,833 was given for the M1 in the article. Apple markets this as a "Pro" device for professional video editing. That's why I believe it is fair to take their word and compare it against my other options for a professional video editing rig. And in that comparison, which Apple has chosen itself, the M1 comes out woefully inadequate at a mer…

You can do toe to toe best of the best speeds and feeds...

But I think the broader strategic outlook is: yes, the M1 loses on a few benchmarks, but the fact that it gets ballpark to some monster rig multiple times in price and power - is this not the whole picture of the Clayton Christensen disruption curve?

The other point is - Apple's Logic and Final Cut software are probably optimized for the M1, and they can likely achieve much of the capabilities of the monster AMD rig for a fraction of the cost/power budget.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#467

Post by bfgoodrich »

kllrnohj wrote: post #462
bfgoodrich wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD definitely is the best of the rest, but it doesn't seem quite as close as it may be held to. In single core tests the 4800u is running that core at 4.2Ghz. Yet it gets soundly bested by the M1 @ 3 - 3.2Ghz (running at a 50%+ advantage, 65%+ clock per clock). The M1 has an enormous IPC advantage. In a multicore test the 4800u has 8 performance cores with HT. It only marginally beats an M1 with 4 performance cores…

> The 4800u on 5nm is only going to be marginally better. This is definitely not true. We already know Zen 3 is +20% IPC over Zen 2 on the same process at the same power. So add 20% to the 4800U without changing anything else as a starting point. Then toss in the process improvements from 5nm (which TSMC says is either 15% faster or 30% less power) as well as any further architectural improvements that AMD is doing i…

To be clear, I said that a 4800u @ 5nm (if one could simply scale a design like that) would only be marginally better. That the 5nm boogeyman is more incremental than the big advantage it is held as.

You replied that if you take the 4800u, switched it to 5nm, switch it to Zen 3...no actually switch it to to Zen 4 and a completely different chip, it would be lots better so what I said is "definitely not true".

I'm not sure this logic follows.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#468

Post by samatman »

xuki wrote: post #224
interestica wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These gains are just through improvements in processors. Now, combine that with parallel leaps for battery tech... It's also good that battery tech hasn't jumped too far ahead already - the constraint has helped in the development in these mobile chips. The display panel is still the biggest energy draw on my laptop. There's a lot of chance for improvement there too. A 2 day battery in 5 years isn't that crazy.

Apple is the kind of company that will choose to slim down the laptop instead of making it 2 day battery life.

...maybe?

The Air form factor is already pushing the limit of what you can do with aluminium and still have high confidence it won't warp when you shove it into your bag, or have it fall over when you open the screen past vertical.

I could see them slimming down the battery to get more components in, maybe, rather than two day battery life.

Which would probably be the right call. There just aren't enough circumstances where not plugging in your laptop while sleeping is necessary to justify it.

Personally I'd like them to make a model with a cellular modem, with all-day battery life even reasonably far from a tower. That would be fun.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#469

Post by rsynnott »

manmal wrote: post #423
rsynnott wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume it does. My 13" 2016 MBP doesn't turn on its fans much unless it's busy.

My 16“ MBP is running its fans basically all day (iOS dev work and ARQ backups)

Yeah, I think the 45W laptops always run them, even if sometimes very slowly. The smaller laptops have been able to turn them off completely for a while, though, when not very busy.

Re: 2020 Mac Mini – Putting Apple Silicon M1 To The Test

#470

Post by jdeibele »

chrismorgan wrote: post #40
luto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find that quote or even the words "undisputedly" or "Zen3" in the article. Was it changed or, if it wasn't, can you give me a pointer, please?

AnandTech split some articles onto multiple pages. The print view gets you the whole article on one page, so I rather prefer it: https://www.anandtech.com/print/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-test...

As I remember, they charged a membership fee for being able to download the whole article as a PDF.

It seemed somewhat reasonable that an article that would be passed around the department or on to your boss would require a fee.

I can't find any mention of it on their website, though. Am I getting my websites confused or did they drop it altogether?

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