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macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

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Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#461

Post by 627467 »

babypuncher wrote: post #335
horsawlarway wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People chose to use Apple because it seems like a benevolent dictatorship. And frankly, a benevolent dictatorship is basically the best government you can have, as long as you're part of the "in-group" who doesn't push boundaries, doesn't cause trouble, and supports the supreme ruler, Kim jon... cough* Apple. --- The problem is that no matter how good the dictatorship might be today, it will eventually bite you. You…

I think the difference between the Google and Apple dictatorships is the business model. Google's customers are not the users, they are the advertisers who rely on the data harvested by Google. The incentive to be evil is directly baked into the business model, and most users end up tolerating it because it is "FREE", and often the only viable option. Apple's customers are the users. If Apple rocks the boat too much,…

> Apple rocks the boat too much, their users might not feel so good about paying

Just today I heard a colleague say how tough it would be to move away from Apple because of their iCloud. Then you have all the apps and content (iOS and macOS) you already paid for.

The difference in business model between G, Apple (or other tech behemoths) are very superficial. Yes, to google and apple operations they are very different, but to a consumer: it's the same. Both try to become essential, all encompassing locking you in and increasing the cost of switching. All brands try to do this. But it's much easier for me to pick a new brand toothpaste after I'm done with previous one than for me to move app ecosystems, specially when those apps ecosystems are all locked down as all non-libre app ecosystems are.

You may "feel" like you're an Apple product because you think you can just buy less Apple products or not at all. That's until you consider the consequences of losing access to third-party content/products you purchase.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#462

Post by rodgerd »

tshaddox wrote: post #307
elmo2you wrote: post #202

Sincerely and without any intention to troll or be sarcastic: I'm puzzled that people are willing buy a computer/OS where (apparently) software can/will fail to launch if some central company server goes down. Maybe I'm just getting this wrong, because I can honestly not quite wrap my head around this. This is such a big no-go, from a systems design point of view. Even beyond unintentional glitches at Apple, just ima…

> I'm puzzled that people are willing buy a computer/OS where (apparently) software can/will fail to launch if some central company server goes down. Maybe I'm just getting this wrong, because I can honestly not quite wrap my head around this. This is such a big no-go, from a systems design point of view. The answer is pretty simple: these problems are extremely rare, they don't last very long, and they tend to have…

Also, which is the bigger risk for most people: disruption to the cert verification, or malicious runtimes on their system?

(Hint: I have literally never seen an example of one of our bank's customers being unable to bank because of this. I have seen heaps and heaps of examples of endpoint compromises resulting in people having their accounts cleaned out.)

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#463

Post by sergeykish »

babypuncher wrote: post #335
horsawlarway wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People chose to use Apple because it seems like a benevolent dictatorship. And frankly, a benevolent dictatorship is basically the best government you can have, as long as you're part of the "in-group" who doesn't push boundaries, doesn't cause trouble, and supports the supreme ruler, Kim jon... cough* Apple. --- The problem is that no matter how good the dictatorship might be today, it will eventually bite you. You…

I think the difference between the Google and Apple dictatorships is the business model. Google's customers are not the users, they are the advertisers who rely on the data harvested by Google. The incentive to be evil is directly baked into the business model, and most users end up tolerating it because it is "FREE", and often the only viable option. Apple's customers are the users. If Apple rocks the boat too much,…

You are a product for any private company, they are just different kinds of evil. It is in Apple interests to limit users freedom to run another OS on their hardware, to funnel applications through App Store.

Users en masse would not switch, not from Apple, not from Microsoft. Their price is not that high in dollars, it is high in freedom. And most users do not value that.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#464

Post by s17n »

babypuncher wrote: post #335
horsawlarway wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People chose to use Apple because it seems like a benevolent dictatorship. And frankly, a benevolent dictatorship is basically the best government you can have, as long as you're part of the "in-group" who doesn't push boundaries, doesn't cause trouble, and supports the supreme ruler, Kim jon... cough* Apple. --- The problem is that no matter how good the dictatorship might be today, it will eventually bite you. You…

I think the difference between the Google and Apple dictatorships is the business model. Google's customers are not the users, they are the advertisers who rely on the data harvested by Google. The incentive to be evil is directly baked into the business model, and most users end up tolerating it because it is "FREE", and often the only viable option. Apple's customers are the users. If Apple rocks the boat too much,…

Making users upset is also a direct threat to Google's business model. It doesn't really matter whether you're paying them $20 directly, or whether you're generating $20 of ad revenue - either way, you're worth $20 to them.

Of course, you are quite right to point out that Google's business model does incentivize behavior that isn't what their users would want. But the same is true of Apple - their business model strongly incentivizes them to create lock-in to the platform. Whether this bothers you more or less than Google's need to mine your data is I guess a matter of personal preference.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#465

Post by bootcampwhere »

elmo2you wrote: post #202

Sincerely and without any intention to troll or be sarcastic: I'm puzzled that people are willing buy a computer/OS where (apparently) software can/will fail to launch if some central company server goes down. Maybe I'm just getting this wrong, because I can honestly not quite wrap my head around this. This is such a big no-go, from a systems design point of view. Even beyond unintentional glitches at Apple, just ima…

Bitcoin people (like me) feel the same about currency. Why out your entire life savings in the hands of a single government when they have proven again and again that the can't be trusted.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#466

Post by nine_k »

tshaddox wrote: post #366
satisfaction wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rare, very long, simple in this context those are simply weasel words in my opinion

It's true that I don't have data on how often this type of problem happens, how long they last, and what the workarounds are, but I'm using those words not to be intentionally vague, but to reflect my own impression from my own experience, and I strongly suspect my impression matches most people's.

It's like saying car crashes are rare, insured against, and you personally never experienced one.

This does not mean car crashes can be ignored, or cannot happen to be dangerous.

There is a balance between the possible damage because of not checking signatures remotely, and the possible damage from not being able to run a program when the remote checking service is unavailable. But there is no situation where the average damage is exactly zero :-/

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#467

Post by type0 »

8note wrote: post #303
josephcsible wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that if you're offline, it skips this check and everything works fine. The reason this is a big deal is that the problem's on their end, so you're not offline, so it keeps trying and waiting instead of just letting you skip the check.

That still seems weird. Why does running unrecognized software become safe when you're off line?

It's a security theater

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#468

Post by TwoBit »

tshaddox wrote: post #307
elmo2you wrote: post #202

Sincerely and without any intention to troll or be sarcastic: I'm puzzled that people are willing buy a computer/OS where (apparently) software can/will fail to launch if some central company server goes down. Maybe I'm just getting this wrong, because I can honestly not quite wrap my head around this. This is such a big no-go, from a systems design point of view. Even beyond unintentional glitches at Apple, just ima…

> I'm puzzled that people are willing buy a computer/OS where (apparently) software can/will fail to launch if some central company server goes down. Maybe I'm just getting this wrong, because I can honestly not quite wrap my head around this. This is such a big no-go, from a systems design point of view. The answer is pretty simple: these problems are extremely rare, they don't last very long, and they tend to have…

How do you use your computer if you don't have an Internet connection and one is required?

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#469

Post by tonymet »

OSs have been doing something similar for a while. Even since the 90s I remember Windows NT checking SSL Cert revocation lists every time you right-clicked. When you disable that option, right click goes from 400ms to 5ms response time.

Synchronous remote calls should not exist in the OS like this

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#470

Post by deadbunny »

narrator wrote: post #292
heavyset_go wrote: post #45

Again, it turns out that Stallman[1] and others[2] were prescient. [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html [2] https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Don't forget the World Economic Forum, but they're happy about all this: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-real...

Hardly "happy about all this". From the end of the linked article:

Author's note: Some people have read this blog as my utopia or dream of the future. It is not. It is a scenario showing where we could be heading - for better and for worse. I wrote this piece to start a discussion about some of the pros and cons of the current technological development. When we are dealing with the future, it is not enough to work with reports. We should start discussions in many new ways. This is the intention with this piece.

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