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EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

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Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#461

Post by kmonsen »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #450
kmonsen wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is trivial to create an app using encryption to send messages between two users. On Android you can sideload so no need for app store. You can also solve this with a webpage, this way it can be used on all devices. The point is that creating a secure channel few users use is pretty trivial unless you outlaw crypto libraries. These laws can only take down apps/websites in mainstream use.

Sure, but you also need to recruit , and it's sort of hard to find new candidates if all you use is your super secret crypto app.

True, but when I worked on this recruiting was mostly an in person thing. For example for Muslim terrorists it was in a radical mosque. You can still radicalize with writings on the internet, they just need to make the first step in person.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#462

Post by kmonsen »

chrisco255 wrote: post #458
kmonsen wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Europe is still incredibly safe, and in my quick overview safer than eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... My home country is Norway, it looks safer than all of Eastern Europe, sometimes by an order of magnitude.

Huh? I'm seeing a 0.5 murders per 100K in Norway which is exceptionally safe no doubt but meanwhile Poland has 0.7 murders per 100K. Bulgaria is 1.3, Czech 0.6...the two most dangerous are Ukraine and Russia. Belgium's 1.7, France is 1.2, Germany 0.95... Real mix it seems. But no, it's not safer by an order of magnitude for all of it, mainly just Ukraine and Russia.

I guess Norway was just really safe, anyway Eastern Europe is not safer on average than Western Europe from what I could see?

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#463

Post by 0xy »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #179

The EU has done a fantastic job painting themselves as defenders of human rights. Don’t fall for it. Democratic governments are representatives of the people and proposals like this only further entrench the political ruling class.

The EU defends human rights with the exception of allowing the US to spy on EU citizens and businesses and allowing member states to sell weapons to authoritarian regimes that are sometimes used to commit war crimes.

It's a corrupt cabal just like the United States. European citizens like to blind themselves to the atrocities by patting themselves on the back when the EU builds some renewable energy, as if it makes up for the wet work committed by EU members in the Middle East and otherwise. It's almost cult-like.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#464

Post by someonehere »

One aspect people don’t realize that this will be abused by those in power for inside information.

Imagine having access to the cell phone data of scientists developing the Covid vaccine and getting inside info on their timeline to announcing a working vaccine. They then make calls or pump money into the company and make money.

This is ripe for financial abuse from governments and representatives.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#465

Post by dmix »

dang wrote: post #293
sixhobbits wrote: post #219

My german isn't that good, but from what I understand and from the translation below, the source seems a bit conspiratorial. I completely agree with the concerns raised elsewhere in this thread, but I'm not sure I see the clear link to recent events in Vienna etc claimed here. Here[0] is an earlier document from 21 october which the article seems to take some screenshots from, so it seems that this has been coming ei…

Thanks—we've changed the URL from https://fm4.orf.at/stories/3008930/ . Submissions to HN need to be in English—we have great respect for other languages, including German, but HN is an English language site. Happily in this case, following the site guideline that calls for original sources solves this problem as well. (I've taken the title from the new URL, btw, which uses the rather strong preposition "against"—I s…

HN needs to come together to reward 'dang's hard work keeping HN to HN quality.

I have this theory that with almost any great music groups there's usually one, sometimes two, great mind(s) working in the background, usually introverted, that really define the talent of the wider group (Brian Wilson, Quincy Jones, Phil Spector, etc are the rare few who got that recognition).

NYT did a great exploration of how this currently works in pop music:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/arts/music/100000005858557/wat...

This analogy is already starting to stretch a bit thin but my main point is there are always some smart people working hard in the background who don't always get enough recognition for what they do. The Aussie girl is in the NYT clip who basically made the song still lives in relative obscurity (you can find her on twitter, probably well paid, but still living without much fanfare), despite this song among others blowing up in the charts.

I am going to attempt to think of something on a personal level but it'd be great if we could organize something larger like a community backed gift/reward. At some level simply upvote internet points aren't enough thanks for the work people put into user forums like these to keep them healthy. I obviously don't have the full solution here just a seed of an idea.

Maybe something nice to do in these depressing pandemic times!

Edit: if anyone has any ideas about organizing such a thing please let me know, maybe a discord channel?

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#466

Post by Arathorn »

infogulch wrote: post #431
Arathorn wrote: post #43

https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/19/combating-abuse-in-matrix... is our attempt at Matrix to spell out what a catastrophic idea it is to backdoor end-to-end encryption (and to provide an alternative proposal in the form of using decentralised reputation to mitigate abuse. We're kicking decentralised reputation work off in earnest tomorrow, so watch this space to see how it goes). I guess we'll be weighing in on the EU…

Does the idea you're proposing enable recording reputation scoring on the scope of a single post/message?

Yes. The idea is to build it to be agnostic to the objects whose trust is being tracked, but for Matrix at least the main building blocks are rooms, users, communities, servers, messages & attachments. However you could use it for other things too if you so wanted (eg client IPs, server IPs, netblocks, ASes, E.164 numbers, URLs etc)

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#467

Post by m4rtink »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #346
m4rtink wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, no one actually has any battleships these days, not even the governments... :-(

Because these days a battleship is mostly a very expensive missile practice target.

And there were times countries had lines of battle of these missile targets spanning the horizon - imagine that! :)

Somehow these just look so much more elegant than just spamming more bombers and nukes. Maybe because they usually only caused death of the sailors crewing them and other warships in battle rather than city populations like bombers and nukes often do ? (Well, unless you live in Yarmouth or on the River Plate.)

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#468

Post by m4rtink »

intricatedetail wrote: post #394
m4rtink wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are actually quite responsive when ypu write them! While it was not enough in the end to stop it I had a 50% response rate when I wrote to the Czech representatives in the european parliament due to the article 13 last year.

Didn't Article 13 pass?

Sadly it did. But most of the Czech MPs voted against it & some looked rather knowledgeable about it from their replies.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#469

Post by vimy »

dang wrote: post #323
Daniel_sk wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German article is more on point and it goes into more details about the background and also the probable solution with "Exceptional Access" architecture. The official EU draft documents always use a very careful language to not create too much suspicion. Only one or two sentences actually tell the truth: "Possible solutions may need the support of service providers in a transparent and lawful manner, as well as i…

I'm certainly open to changing the URL from what is probably an obscurantist press release to a more accurate and neutral source. But it would need to be in English. Sorry—I realize that's frustrating to anyone who reads both languages, but most HN readers can't. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

I don’t see how that’s a problem when Chrome has translation built- in and the other browsers have plugins.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#470

Post by dleslie »

damnencryption wrote: post #324
nix23 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We live in a dangerous world. No we don't, but that's what the Politicians try to implement in our brains.

You are wrong. We live in such a dangerous world that the biggest reason for cause of death in many developed countries is suicide, obesity, diseases, etc.

The world is so safe that instead of dying from war, famine or untreatable infectious disease, those in developed countries are dying from diseases of wealth and comfort.
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