This advantage: “Serverless models don’t require users to maintain their own operating systems, or even to build applications that are compatible with particular OSs. Instead, developers can produce generic code, and then upload it to the serverless framework, and watch it run.” ... is utterly compelling and is why serverless will not just win, but leave renting a server a tiny niche market that few developers will h…
>The future of software development is going to be defined by cloud providers. They’re going to define the language ecosystem, the canonical architectures for apps etc... That's... quite depressing to consider, actually. I long for a return to the internet of yore when Native apps were still king and not everything was as-a-service.
The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
461–470 of 670 posts
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maintaining your own server is completely nuts. If that isn’t obvious now, it will be in another decade. It’s massively inefficient. Like running your own power plant to serve your factory, except you also have to worry about security and constant maintenance, along with all the moving parts that surround a server. Except that it is not. The security and constant maintenance is needed but it is worth in many cases.…
> Software written in any programming language (as long as it targets WASM) is a lot easier to host than existing models. For the past 20 years you have been able to target x86 gnu/linux and have it running without modification on a readily available server, either your own hardware or rented/public cloud. How does switching from one binary format to another (x86 to WASM) change anything (except maybe slowing down yo…
Simplified deployment + automatic sandboxing?
AFAIK with x86 you can't just write a client app and have it automatically run on any computer that visits your website.
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#463This advantage: “Serverless models don’t require users to maintain their own operating systems, or even to build applications that are compatible with particular OSs. Instead, developers can produce generic code, and then upload it to the serverless framework, and watch it run.” ... is utterly compelling and is why serverless will not just win, but leave renting a server a tiny niche market that few developers will h…
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#464This advantage: “Serverless models don’t require users to maintain their own operating systems, or even to build applications that are compatible with particular OSs. Instead, developers can produce generic code, and then upload it to the serverless framework, and watch it run.” ... is utterly compelling and is why serverless will not just win, but leave renting a server a tiny niche market that few developers will h…
> Maintaining your own server is completely nuts I've in this area professionally for some time now, and I've never "maintained" servers in any reasonable sense. There are kernel people who maintain the kernel and there are Debian devs who maintain the operating system. The server may be mine (but more often that not, it isn't) but only in very specific circumstances do I ever concern myself with maintaining any part…
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#465This advantage: “Serverless models don’t require users to maintain their own operating systems, or even to build applications that are compatible with particular OSs. Instead, developers can produce generic code, and then upload it to the serverless framework, and watch it run.” ... is utterly compelling and is why serverless will not just win, but leave renting a server a tiny niche market that few developers will h…
> Maintaining your own server is completely nuts I've in this area professionally for some time now, and I've never "maintained" servers in any reasonable sense. There are kernel people who maintain the kernel and there are Debian devs who maintain the operating system. The server may be mine (but more often that not, it isn't) but only in very specific circumstances do I ever concern myself with maintaining any part…
I agree that it almost never happens, and that's why I run Debian as well. However, if you run production then things happen.
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
Basically nothing I have ever used had 99.99% uptime except maybe the phone and emergency services. Why do you need this level of uptime unless life and limb depends on you? My bank has regular scheduled downtime, Steam/Dota has regular downtime, entire Microsoft datacenters had issues and had around a day of downtime, Lime, Uber, my mobile carrier - all had downtime or bugs or glitches that were equivalent to downti…
But we can just stick my flavor of the month js library on lambda and bobs your uncle
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#467This advantage: “Serverless models don’t require users to maintain their own operating systems, or even to build applications that are compatible with particular OSs. Instead, developers can produce generic code, and then upload it to the serverless framework, and watch it run.” ... is utterly compelling and is why serverless will not just win, but leave renting a server a tiny niche market that few developers will h…
Instead, developers can build applications that are compatible with particular serverless frameworks.
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then maybe they should learn how to deal with it
Learning how to deal with it is great, until you find out what you don't know. Dealing with server infrastructure isn't business differentiating. Doing it poorly can certainly be business terminating, though.
I agree, for most businesses no it isn't.
However, saving on cloud hosting costs to replace them with a handful of dedicated servers in different data centres can make a large difference to costs, depending on what the cloud usage is. For a funded rocketship startup with lots of free AWS credits it makes sense to use AWS; for a steady state or long-term low income business, not so much.
Those costs can make all the difference to a business if the cloud rental is creeping up to look comparable with salaries.
I've used a combination of dedicated and cloud hosting for a long time. In general the dedicated systems are so much cheaper for the same amount of bandwidth and compute, and you can run VMs on them with great performance, so you can run everything interesting inside VMs and a lot of the arguments around upgrade downtime have completely gone away.
With some cloud to assist, you can even use cloud temporarily to cover the downtime for major upgrades such as replacing hosts or reconfiguring the cluster network.
99.9% uptime with excellent bandwidth is easily achievable this way, and you can completely avoid user-facing downtime due to planned upgrades, with a bit of planning around DNS and IP transitions, VM migration, overlay networks, things like that.
Sometimes at much lower opex cost (100x) than the modern cloud-recommended equivalents, although it takes knowledge and time to ensure it.
If you have enough redundancy and occasional infrastructure stress testing, a similar level of "optimise for sleep" is possible as with cloud deployments. If you care about this (not every business does), it does take some work and knowledge to produce and verify hot redundancy, and of course there are costs.
Things will go wrong, but they'll tend to be at the level of things running inside VMs and containers, rather than hosts failing. The same things which go wrong with cloud deployments anyway.
The cloud can be used alongside dedicated to provide some of that redundancy and extra scaling. Cloud is rented in small units of time, so you can use cloud as "free most of the time" cold-backup service, and if there's a burst in traffic beyond what the dedicated systems can provide, or if you want to temporarily improve geographic locality for a service.
It might seem wasteful to rent larger dedicated services rather than cloud-as-needed, but the cost differential has changed in the last 10 years to favour the former more than it used to.
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the flip side, not being able to use Django is one of the reasons against serverless for me. There's immense value in having a library for anything you might think of, installable and integratable in minutes. You have to roll your own way too often in Flask et al, so much so that I don't see any reason to use Flask for anything other than ad-hoc servers with only a few endpoints.
Check out Django-Zappa. It’s Django that runs in a Lambda.
Re: The Serverless Revolution Has Stalled
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maintaining your own server is completely nuts I've in this area professionally for some time now, and I've never "maintained" servers in any reasonable sense. There are kernel people who maintain the kernel and there are Debian devs who maintain the operating system. The server may be mine (but more often that not, it isn't) but only in very specific circumstances do I ever concern myself with maintaining any part…
Yeah but those "very specific circumstances" can come up at inconvenient moments. Certbot didn't run, disk got full, CPU hitting 100% for some reason, Debian needed to be upgraded, These are all things that need to be taken care of. Sometimes, right away and just when your family needs you. I agree that it almost never happens, and that's why I run Debian as well. However, if you run production then things happen.