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Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#461

Post by myko »

room500 wrote: post #359
CydeWeys wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. 100%. We need people to have kids (and for it to be financially possible to do so) because kids are literally the future generations of human society, and if no one is having kids then we'll see a very rapid collapse. This is, incidentally, why it pisses me off when people complain that their pets don't get the same kind of accommodations that children…

I don't understand this sentiment. Farming is critical for society. However, we don't require everyone to pull on their overalls and work the land. Security is critical for society. However, we don't expect every person to pick up their machine gun and jump in a trench. Society is nowhere near a population level that is dangerously low. In fact, we are more concerned with overpopulation and overconsumption. If you ha…

> Farming is critical for society. However, we don't require everyone to pull on their overalls and work the land

US society heavily subsidizes farming at the government level

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#462

Post by hodgesrm »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> What's next, complaining that the cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I?

I think the problem starts with framing the problem as parents vs. non-parents instead of considering a wide range of reasons why employees need more flexibility in work schedules for personal or family reasons. Those include sickness, taking care of children, taking care of elderly parents, a sick spouse, taking care of sick/dying pets, etc.

It's difficult to think of anybody who would not be affected by one or more of these.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#463

Post by rayiner »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #362
kevstev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mid 30s childless man I completely agree. We essentially sent people home on a Friday, told them to figure out a work from home situation, and then they were told welp your kids aren't going to school either, and whatever childcare you had lined up has now vanished too- and this is all happening in the course of a few days at most. So now you have kids to worry about all day, home schooling to oversee, focusing…

> Maybe I am making assumptions here on the general political leanings of those here, but if you are talking about supporting anything like Medicare for all, UBI, BLM, PPP or even just support the Democratic party in general, pulling a little extra weight for those in a time of need is IMHO a relatively small ask that you as an individual can implement compared to those agendas. I suspect a fair number of the complai…

> I suspect a fair number of the complainers are people with Democratic leanings, and I think I can describe their thought process to you.

> I think their problem is that a private company is doing this, not the Government.

Is that a Democratic take? I think it's a liberaltarian take on it. Here's the conservative libertarian response: raising children is one of the primary functions of society, and social norms that govern private actors make a certain amount of deference to that. Replacing those norms and kicking everything up to the government is a very statist solution, inviting the government into large swaths of human activity where it wasn't present before.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#464

Post by christinamltn »

alisonkisk wrote: post #436
puszczyk wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think school and day care are a reasonable assumption. It’s a bit unfair to say — _keep your spouse at home because there maybe once-in-a-lifetime pandemic and the schools will be closed_.

It's more fair to say "save some money for a rainy day" or "you will have to sacrifice some of your quality of life and savings due to the pandemic".

But right now you very often can’t apply money to fix these problems.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#465

Post by alexpotato »

aaomidi wrote: post #152

What I find short sighted about these policies are they don't realize that people without children can also feel stressed and need more time off. e.g. if you're single during this time, you are completely isolated from the world, and your colleagues. This can be extremely difficult mentally and on an individual level can be much harder than just someone with a kid. These policies shouldn't be "oh if you have kids you…

> if you're single during this time, you are completely isolated from the world, and your colleagues. This can be extremely difficult mentall

100% this. Especially for the single folks who were living in big cities (E.g. NYC) and had gotten used to the "I can step out of my apartment building and it's ALL. RIGHT. THERE!"

At least when you have children the "kid train" never stops which leaves little time to worry about a lot of things so you just keep going. Granted, there are pros and cons to this but from an isolation perspective, it can definitely be a pro.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#466

Post by TallGuyShort »

umvi wrote: post #256
sulam wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just keep in mind, those people working two full time jobs might be barely making ends meeting in Silicon Valley. Maybe one is a tech writer earning 5-figures and the other is a nurse with a schedule they don't control and that doesn't give them real benefits (this is all too common). They can't afford to quit and now they have to juggle kids, too. Everything worked fine when the kids were in school and they could pa…

I hate to say "move", but if dual income is super hard to make ends meet in SV, it's time to move out of SV. The US is huge, there are tons of places with decent tech scene, but affordable housing on a 5-figure salary without needing dual income (Texas, Utah, etc.).

From the perspective of their decision, I mostly agree with you. But I hope it's not lost on anyone that if being a nurse is not a viable career, that will ultimately be far more disastrous than any other market inefficiencies.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#467

Post by monoideism »

room500 wrote: post #359
CydeWeys wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. 100%. We need people to have kids (and for it to be financially possible to do so) because kids are literally the future generations of human society, and if no one is having kids then we'll see a very rapid collapse. This is, incidentally, why it pisses me off when people complain that their pets don't get the same kind of accommodations that children…

I don't understand this sentiment. Farming is critical for society. However, we don't require everyone to pull on their overalls and work the land. Security is critical for society. However, we don't expect every person to pick up their machine gun and jump in a trench. Society is nowhere near a population level that is dangerously low. In fact, we are more concerned with overpopulation and overconsumption. If you ha…

> Society is nowhere near a population level that is dangerously low.

I'd suggest looking into the economics of social security (even if you won't need it, most people will), as well as what happens to societies with plummeting birth rates.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#468

Post by goldenchrome »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #437
goldenchrome wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment was directed at wealthy tech workers who have access to education, contraceptives, and abortions. Of course there are outliers but most of my coworkers carefully planned their pregnancy around their company’s promotion schedules. And I don’t think the human race is anything special and I’m more than happy to let it die off if we decide to stop having kids.

I have six years of college and a Certificate in GIS. I was one of the top students in my graduating high school class and won a National Merit Scholarship. I also have a 33 year old son who is the result of failed birth control. I chose to not seek an abortion because I was already married to a man with whom I wanted kids, but I had originally intended to have them later. I will suggest that most of your coworkers d…

Great, so you actively chose to have a kid and you managed to deal with the consequences. That’s all I’m arguing for. I support you.

If you wanted to minimize chaos in your life, you wouldn’t have had a kid.

You don’t get to choose to have a kid and then complain about the chaos.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#469

Post by mlboss »

luckylion wrote: post #183
jacquesm wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids are a hobby?

Your point -as I understood it- was that they do work the same amount, just not on work-stuff, ergo they should be treated as if they worked the same amount on work stuff. And you can absolutely work on hobbies just the same. Kids are a choice, first and foremost. And we are, as societies, helping quite a bit with the consequences of those choices, and yes, that's mostly funded by the single people.

I would argue that having kids is the only reasonable goal you can have as a species. Everything else that humans do is optional.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#470

Post by myko »

sokoloff wrote: post #263
nicbou wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the argument I made above. If they get paid 100% of their salary for 80% of the output, so should everyone else. I compared it to smokers taking smoke breaks while non-smokers aren't allowed to take random 5 minute breaks.

At a place where smokers can take random 5-minute breaks, I can practically guarantee that non-smokers can as well.

> At a place where smokers can take random 5-minute breaks, I can practically guarantee that non-smokers can as well.

Never seemed okay for non-smokers to take these breaks in the Army

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