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When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

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Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#461

Post by rattray »

hn_check wrote: post #396
tomduncalf wrote: post #160

Had a look and it seems that Google do refund the transaction fee, which I think adds weight to the argument that is unfair behaviour by Apple: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... "Google will return the transaction fee to you. You'll see the returned transaction fee on your next earnings report."

"which I think adds weight to the argument that is unfair behaviour by Apple" Apple takes back from the developer exactly what they gave the developer. This has been verified by a number of people, and this submission is just farcically wrong. How is this nonsense front page on HN? Is this community this clueless?

See this comment elsewhere on the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23992485

If you charge $10, you get paid $7, and if the customer refunds, Apple removes $10 from your account – you'll be $3 worse off than if the customer never purchased anything.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#462

Post by rattray »

hn_check wrote: post #413
smarnach wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any sources for your claim? The original claim - i.e. developers lost money for each refund - is backed not only by the original post, but also by several other sources linked in the comments.

Which sources would those be? Someone linking to preliminary text of Apple's refund policy when they were forming the app store in 2009? Because that is meaningless. Apple takes back exactly what they gave the developer. There are zero sources demonstrating otherwise (and the source of this links a basic sales chart -- guess what, that doesn't prove his point whatsoever). There are literally a half dozen developers r…

cc @dang

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#463

Post by [deleted] »

gerdesj wrote: post #437
jclardy wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is part of what is holding back iPad software. You can't charge $100 for Sketch and lose $30 when someone asks for a refund. Apple designed this around $1-$10 apps where losing $2 at volume is fine. What is worse, is that Apple doesn't remove the app from the user's device. When you get a refund of a paid app it is on the honor system for them to delete it. It is removed from their account, so they can n…

"where losing $2 at volume is fine." Sorry, when is this fine? A dev flogs an app at 10 and pays 3 to Apple. Then on a refund they lose 3 and the end user has no incentive to even delete the app. Nope, I won't entertain that nonsense. The only way that I can see for that model to play out is for the dev to factor in a lossrate x 1.3 uplift for their app. That means owners of shiny iStuff are paying Apple an additiona…

[deleted]

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#464

Post by cma »

neymgm wrote: post #419
nomel wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all know this is an intentional design decision by Apple I see this as a good thing, since it probably means that only the user is capable of removing apps, requiring intent, and that Apple can never remove an app from my device.

I saw it the same way. I'd be a terrible idea to let Apple remove/install AppStore apps without the customer's permission. I don't know if it already does something similar but in the next OS update it could block the usage and force to delete refunded apps.

Why couldn't the refund be conditional on granting removal permission? One issue would be they could still restore from a backup I suppose.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#465

Post by cortic »

zamadatix wrote: post #438
cortic wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://qz.com/1683460/what-happens-to-your-itunes-account-w... -fraudulent gift card https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208856 -a problem with the payment method https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250384392 -credit card fraud I asked for you to cite sources on Apple banning people for repeatedly claiming a refund. Not for using a stolen credit or gift card.

The theme is fraud which is what large amounts of refunds are treated as. Cite me that it's not fraud if that's not good enough for you, I'm not really interested in proving fraud is not just allowed to run rampant in a payment system in the very thread about how doing this exact thing would be abusive and need to be stopped somehow.

You don't know that large amounts of refunds are treated as fraud, its just wishful thinking, as i thought.

In the EU i have a right to a refund, there is no part of that right that forbids me from repeating that purchase. Since we have established that Apple don't suffer financially from obeying these rules to the letter, i see no incentive for them to treat this kind of thing like fraud.

They might, but you have not established this, and i don't think its a fair assumption to make.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#466

Post by jkrems »

rzwitserloot wrote: post #433
nomel wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all know this is an intentional design decision by Apple I see this as a good thing, since it probably means that only the user is capable of removing apps, requiring intent, and that Apple can never remove an app from my device.

Leading to a _trivial_ solution. Want a refund? Awesome. Delete the software from your phone. Then, go to the appstore, find the app again, and click 'request refund'. If apple wants to improve the user experience, they can offer 'request refund' when someone uninstalls a recently bought app.

That would still mean that Apple would need to have a remote way of scanning every device currently connected to your account (even it's offline..?) to see if you have the app installed anywhere. It's trivial if the app can only exist on a single device and that is the only device that can request the refund. But that's not the reality.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#468

Post by hn_check »

rattray wrote: post #461
hn_check wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"which I think adds weight to the argument that is unfair behaviour by Apple" Apple takes back from the developer exactly what they gave the developer. This has been verified by a number of people, and this submission is just farcically wrong. How is this nonsense front page on HN? Is this community this clueless?

See this comment elsewhere on the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23992485 If you charge $10, you get paid $7, and if the customer refunds, Apple removes $10 from your account – you'll be $3 worse off than if the customer never purchased anything.

EDIT: LOL the guy retracted it and noted that he was mistaken. Every clown who repeated this and argued the unfairness of it, like rattray here -- delete your accounts.

>If you charge $10, you get paid $7, and if the customer refunds, Apple removes $10 from your account

BUT APPLE DOESN'T DO THIS

There are literally dozens of developers with monetized apps saying that Apple does not and has not done this in this thread and replies to the tweet. There is one guy misrepresenting some facts. The overwhelming truth according to the pitchfork mob of HN is the lie. Amazing.

The gullibility of this crowd is simply incredible. Do you not think this would be bigger news than "hey look, some guy says something billions of dollars into app store sales".

cc @ dang -- rattray is intentionally spreading hilariously dumb misinformation to make HN look like a bunch of stupid assholes.

Hilariously this is auto-dead. Of course it is. Yet another of so many times HN has been so catastrophically off the mark. This place is a den of absolute idiots, time and time again. And when it is realized it goes to auto-dead time. Absolutely fucking embarrassing for anyone who is proud of their association with this shithole of stupidity.

Re: When a customer refunds your paid app, Apple refunds its 30% cut [edited]

#469

Post by km3r »

jkrems wrote: post #466
rzwitserloot wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leading to a _trivial_ solution. Want a refund? Awesome. Delete the software from your phone. Then, go to the appstore, find the app again, and click 'request refund'. If apple wants to improve the user experience, they can offer 'request refund' when someone uninstalls a recently bought app.

That would still mean that Apple would need to have a remote way of scanning every device currently connected to your account (even it's offline..?) to see if you have the app installed anywhere. It's trivial if the app can only exist on a single device and that is the only device that can request the refund. But that's not the reality.

I mean they already track which device things are install and not installed on, a simple popup "please delete this app from all your devices in order to request a refund" would be all it takes .

Or if that's too much of a disruption for users, just requiring the current device to delete it would cover most cases and be better then the current situation.

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