The American Press Is Destroying Itself • Hacker News Board

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#461

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:42 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #400

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #134

For those in the comments that haven't read the article, I highly recommend you check it out. While the comments are talking about the survival of news media and "tone-deaf" titles, the bulk of the article is about the Overton window[1] shifting to the point where rigerous journalism questioning outrages of the time is becoming untenable, weakening the news overall. It's a very good read. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org…

I would advise care when reading it. It’s not immediately clear but it uses very hand picked facts to paint a very different picture of what’s actually going on. I call these kinds of articles disinformation-lite; not outright lies but selectively picking events to portray a hypothetical scenario that doesn’t really hold true. I’ll cite a specific example to make this case. See this paragraph: > Cotton did not call f…

Something that Cotton also said recently on Twitter: "No quarter for insurrectionists, anarchists, rioters, and looters."

Literally, "no quarter" means that combatants are to be killed rather than taken prisoner. Figuratively, it means to give one's full effort to achieve an overwhelming victory. Especially with the inclusion of anarchists, it's hard to reconcile that with the idea that he really wants to cast this as a matter of law enforcement. His is, to put it bluntly, a fascist sentiment.

I know some people feel like the f-word is overused, but it's pretty well accepted that one of the elements that separates a genuinely fascist movement from mere authoritarianism is the normalization of extrajudicial violence against political opponents. Not to put too fine a point on it: historically, anarchists were often specifically targeted for such fascist violence.

I can't tell you that Tom Cotton is a fascist in his heart, but he is very definitely speaking their language.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#462

Post by refurb » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

hobs wrote: post #343

iso947 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your president literally ordered a military attack on peaceful citizens for a photo-op.

This is factually correct for anyone complaining. You can argue about some other places, but this was an obvious authoritarian play for a photo-op. Military officials are condemning this - why is this up for debate? (hint, its not.) https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/national-guard-troops-deploy... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/politics/military-nati... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-threatens-to-mobili…

Per your article - "Moments before, police had cleared largely peaceful demonstrators from the area".

Largely would infer there were some demonstrators using violence.

I don't disagree that it was a bad move politically.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#463

Post by drtillberg » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #42

Taibbi at this point should start a new news co. He, and to some degree, Glenn Greenwald, have been the only two members of the press who seem to be unable to see the emperor’s new clothes in the parades of the last several years.

Taibbi is not alone in this, but he's prolific, consistent and the best. If he was anything less, traditional media relentlessly would tell us about his "fake news."

It says something about our moment in history that it would take a maverick and upstart working at the edges of institutions to say something true about the great issues of our time.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#464

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

blickentwapft wrote: post #83

I’m getting to the point of just switching off. Whatever your opinion, there will be many others who deeply and vehemently disagree with you and do so with passionate, fiery, certain-to-be-correct righteous indignation. Carry your true opinions in your head and share them with no one.

>I’m getting to the point of just switching off.

I recognized how overcome I was feeling by it all and switched off a while ago, and life has felt a lot easier since. I've a couple of subscriptions for print media and now defer checking the news, avoiding Twitter etc. and just catching up with the weekly editions over the weekend. HN is the only site I really look at daily due to its mix of interesting content, suppression of political battles and quality of moderation. Even then I'll often Pocket articles and defer them until later.

Recognize that you're being manipulated, that you've no influence over any of it and step away. I promise, after the initial come-down effect it entails, you'll feel a lot better for it.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#465

Post by finder83 » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

havelhovel wrote: post #177

Shivetya wrote: post #91

What I find most reprehensible about this whole situation is that more and more members of the left regulate political discourse, no make that any discourse, by defining any opposing view as illegitimate, bigoted, and now violence. As in, they are taking the position that their moral superiority is without question and anyone who does not ascribe to this has no rights and we are nearing the point of the same having n…

I’m not following this logic. People are expressing themselves and others are responding as they see fit: agreement, condemnation, silence, etc. It sounds like a marketplace of ideas in a free society. No one is having their basic human rights taken away from them because someone else called them a bigot. If you’re uncomfortable with someone’s ideas making them a pariah, you’re describing a basic social dilemma that…

Well, unless you consider the violence coming with the Antifa driven riots. There have been many cases where dissenting voices, including journalists, have been physically attacked in the last couple of weeks.

The same could be said of mobs in universities, cancel culture, etc.

There are plenty of examples on both sides of politics right now of peoples' basic human rights being violated.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#466

Post by rayiner » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:48 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #261

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. I suspect that's correct. It's hard now to find any news outlet now that sticks to "Who, What, When, Where, Why". This is a consequence of pay per click, probably. The left and the right now both have a checklist of mandatory positions required to avoid punishment. Those positions are in many cases contrary to fact. That's not good. Denial has become a cor…

My local Annapolis newspaper, the Capital Gazette, does a pretty good job on that.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#467

Post by csallen » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:50 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #387

csallen wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that care for every issue is expressed in the same way, and also that whether or not something makes front page news or gets people riled up is a fair measure of how much they care, as opposed to a measure of simply how flashy or exciting that issue is.

> that whether or not something makes front page news or gets people riled up is a fair measure of how much they care That seems like a pretty good metric for whether the political system is grappling with something. What metric are you proposing as an alternative? Does it show a different result?

The political system is always grappling with lots of things simultaneously. Some of those things will always be getting more publicity and arousing more anger than others at any point in time, but so what? That doesn't necessarily mean anyone's moving the needle on those issues to a higher degree than on other issues.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#468

Post by catalogia » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #459

klipt wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy to be impervious to one mob when you have an equal but opposite mob to support you.

And yet, his so called mob has done... nothing here. Which, I know, is very frustrating to those who are salivating at the thought of seeing them provoked. The unanswered cries of "where's the 2FA crowd now?!" have, admittedly, been very satisfying to watch.

I for one am glad that most the 2A crowd, on both sides of the aisle, don't seem to presently think shooting people is be a good idea. As for people not in that crowd who seem to think otherwise (or at least criticize the 2A crowd not thinking otherwise)... well I'm glad they don't own guns. If you don't actually think otherwise, it seems very perverse to criticize them for their restraint.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#469

Post by giardini » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #172

giardini wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CydeWeys says*>"As for "Buildings matter, too", what a colossal fuck-up that was. If you're that tone-deaf, you legitimately are a liability, and shouldn't be in charge." Not if "Buildings" is also metonymic and stands for "civilization".

Civilization is not at risk here.

Ever seen a civilization w/o buildings? I don't think it would be an improvement.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#470

Post by zipwitch » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:55 AM UTC

wherewillitlead wrote: post #198

gfodor wrote: post #42

Taibbi at this point should start a new news co. He, and to some degree, Glenn Greenwald, have been the only two members of the press who seem to be unable to see the emperor’s new clothes in the parades of the last several years.

Have you seen the news show "Rising"? They have been staking out this space for about a year now. Taibbi and Greenwald appear there regularly. This show is probably the most interesting new development in American political media. The hosts have jokingly described their philosophy as "let's hate each other less and elites more", and present as a mostly-friendly pair of left and right populists. They were on Joe Rogan…

I can't take Taibbi and Greenwald's antagonism against "elites" seriously when they take every chance possible to defend the actions of a billionaire President and his billionaire-stuff Cabinet.