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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#461

Post by znpy »

briandear wrote: post #220
bjourne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

> I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. I was in the no-man’s land between the K…

> The Tea Party protests were never violent.

There's a big difference in protesting because you're being taxed too much (in you opinion) and protesting because people with your same skin colour are being systematically targeted by police and killed for no reason.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#462

Post by huonpine »

kuzimoto wrote: post #354
komali2 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventing others from interfering should count, no? So our most recent case is 1 murderer and 3 accessories to, at the very least.

> Preventing others from interfering should count, no? Sure, but that's not what you asked. I believe the other three will be charged and convicted. At least that what I hope will happen.

Floyd used a $20 note that the store owner thought was counterfeit, called the cops, the cops didn't even check to see that if it was a real $20 note before killing him. It was real...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#463

Post by meerita »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #459
balls187 wrote: post #455

I was observing the BLM protest in DT Renton today. The Renton PD seemed to employ a "out of plain sight" approach. Patrol vehicles strategically placed, a few uniform officers were near occassionally chatting with protestors, and patrol vehicles driving by the scene. At one point a team of bicycle cops appeared out of no where rode through along side the protestors. Each "side" seemed to be respectful of each other.…

It seems to me that almost every violent protest/riot started peaceful but then police make it violent. I have seen this so many times where police stay out of the way and everything goes smoothly. I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence.

Are you saying it was police fault people went to loot/destroy evertyhing in every city?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#464

Post by AnthonyMouse »

runarberg wrote: post #411
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't retroactively justify a riot based on police conflicts with rioters. It violates causality.

I’m not so sure you can pin causality here. Anecdotally, the protests I’ve visited in the past have always been exactly as violent as the police initiates. A peaceful police usually means a peaceful protest in my experience. A violent police—on the other hand—can sometimes cause a violent protest, and even a riot. Crowd control is a science. And you are sort of ignoring the science by claiming that rioters are the ca…

> Anecdotally, the protests I’ve visited in the past have always been exactly as violent as the police initiates.

Things escalate when someone escalates them. Sometimes that's the police. Sometimes it isn't. And even when it is, you still have to be willing to be provoked. Don't.

We have people in this thread justifying riots as "we tried kneeling at football games" as if there is some kind of reasonable progression from there to looting and burning down churches.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#465

Post by khuey »

prawn wrote: post #347
jayd16 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its really about scale and whether a counter protest shows up. I'd also like to see numbers. There are a lot of pride parades, various demonstrations, women's marches etc that aren't met with violence.

In this case, the police are the counter protest, I guess.

The protest is about a police murder, so yeah, they are.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#466

Post by DoreenMichele »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #459
balls187 wrote: post #455

I was observing the BLM protest in DT Renton today. The Renton PD seemed to employ a "out of plain sight" approach. Patrol vehicles strategically placed, a few uniform officers were near occassionally chatting with protestors, and patrol vehicles driving by the scene. At one point a team of bicycle cops appeared out of no where rode through along side the protestors. Each "side" seemed to be respectful of each other.…

It seems to me that almost every violent protest/riot started peaceful but then police make it violent. I have seen this so many times where police stay out of the way and everything goes smoothly. I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence.

I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence.

I think that's unlikely.

Keeping the peace is an inherently challenging job that gets harder exactly when it is needed the most.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#467

Post by carb »

meerita wrote: post #463
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that almost every violent protest/riot started peaceful but then police make it violent. I have seen this so many times where police stay out of the way and everything goes smoothly. I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence.

Are you saying it was police fault people went to loot/destroy evertyhing in every city?

Yes. If police departments properly charged their employees when they break the law, there would not have been protests, rioting, or looting. Trevor Noah's attempt at explaining this is very straightforward but adroit.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#468

Post by joshuamorton »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #366
briandear wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. I was in the no-man’s land between the K…

You are trying to sound objective by comparing protests but frankly you sound downright foolish. You're comparing protests about systemic racism and murder to protests getting hair cuts and lowering taxes. Of course one side's protests usually break out in violence. They are protesting the very fact that they are inordinately subject to widespread state-sanctioned violence.

Also the police are willing to escalate violently with one group but not the other.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#469

Post by scruple »

komali2 wrote: post #196
scruple wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your motorcycle isn't your shelter and vandalism isn't typically complete destruction.

> Your motorcycle isn't your shelter Not seen news come out of people's homes destroyed. If we're going to participate in a damages competition, though, let's do that - the cops shot out a couple people's eyeballs, but only after of course kicking off this whole thing by murdering black people with no consequences. There, that settles that.

No it doesn't...

https://www.nbc12.com/2020/05/31/its-unacceptable-richmond-p...

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1267120254104330242/pu/...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#470

Post by creato »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #459
balls187 wrote: post #455

I was observing the BLM protest in DT Renton today. The Renton PD seemed to employ a "out of plain sight" approach. Patrol vehicles strategically placed, a few uniform officers were near occassionally chatting with protestors, and patrol vehicles driving by the scene. At one point a team of bicycle cops appeared out of no where rode through along side the protestors. Each "side" seemed to be respectful of each other.…

It seems to me that almost every violent protest/riot started peaceful but then police make it violent. I have seen this so many times where police stay out of the way and everything goes smoothly. I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence.

Seems to you based on what? Reddit posts?

More realistically, I think it is rarely this simple, on either side. I'm sure that usually there is a feedback loop of escalating responses.

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