Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#461

Post by spderosso » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #155

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really is the issue? That Amazon is leveraging its success to be successful? It's unfair that Amazon is able to see that a product category is doing well so it invests its own money into manufacturing a product to sell through its site? Do you really think that if Amazon couldn't use the data from its own site that it wouldn't procure it elsewhere? Before any product is developed there is extensive market resear…

Vertical monopolies are anti-competitive. It works like this: 1. Amazon clones independent manufacturer's product. 2. Amazon strangles manufacturer because they can promote their own product more and have lower overhead because they control the entire chain. 3. Competitor dies. 4. Amazon has no competition on this product. 5. They raise prices and/or lower quality. 6. Consumers pay more for a shittier product.

> 5. They raise prices and/or lower quality.

> 6. Consumers pay more for a shittier product.

Or a competing product emerges with a lower price and/or better quality. Step 6 would only happen if competing products are not allowed to be sold on Amazon. And even if Amazon does that, I would assume that if the delta in price and quality is big enough people would switch to buying the product on Shopify, eBay, or any other platform the manufacturer can use to sell.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#462

Post by plausible » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

bofadeez wrote: post #214

wpietri wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your evidence that we get better outcomes for consumers?

Giving consumers the same basket of goods at a lower cost just increases their real income, purchasing power, and overall standard of living. Amazon is effectively distributing billions of dollars of charity to those who need it the most. They lose $2 billion a quarter on retail. That's $2 billion per quarter in subsidies to consumers.

Except that they'll quickly recoup that "subsidy" by raising prices after they've dumped their competition.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#463

Post by CodeCube » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

dnissley wrote: post #319

CodeCube wrote: post #290

So many comments about, "doesn't everyone know they do this?", and "everyone does this!" I say there should be an explicit difference between "running a platform", and "selling on a platform", and never should the two meet. By "platform" here, and in the context of selling stuff online or IRL, I mainly mean that the store should never compete with their suppliers ... it's madness and unethical. If everyone can get a…

Would this apply to physical platforms as well? E.g. Walmart and Target who also do similar things with similar data

yes

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#464

Post by CodeCube » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #399

CodeCube wrote: post #290

So many comments about, "doesn't everyone know they do this?", and "everyone does this!" I say there should be an explicit difference between "running a platform", and "selling on a platform", and never should the two meet. By "platform" here, and in the context of selling stuff online or IRL, I mainly mean that the store should never compete with their suppliers ... it's madness and unethical. If everyone can get a…

So, force all retail stores to divest their house brands, which they have been selling without complaint as long as I’ve been alive?

yes

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#465

Post by CodeCube » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

replicatorblog wrote: post #322

CodeCube wrote: post #290

So many comments about, "doesn't everyone know they do this?", and "everyone does this!" I say there should be an explicit difference between "running a platform", and "selling on a platform", and never should the two meet. By "platform" here, and in the context of selling stuff online or IRL, I mainly mean that the store should never compete with their suppliers ... it's madness and unethical. If everyone can get a…

So no private label products from Walmart, Target, Kroger, or CVS?

ideally, no

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#466

Post by xibalba » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

This is completely unconscionable. I've reached the tipping point in my opinion of Amazon re: antitrust. Set the dogs loose on these bastards.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#467

Post by friendlybus » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

viahoptop wrote: post #449

What is the difference between this and the store brands at supermarkets?

Not much. Walmart crushed an art supply company by enticing them in, copying the product at a lower quality and price, then slowly reduced shelf space of the other guy as he deflated. He ended up worse off than when he started.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#468

Post by kortilla » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #345

TimSchumann wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The is absolutely no veil between the hypervisor and the guest virtual machines. Not in the EBS either. This is 100% true. To do any useful computation on your data (read, what you're using all AWS for) they have to have 100% visibility into your data. > If they say they won't read your data, better trust them. If you don't, stay away from their datacenters. That's it, right there. All of this is based on Trust in…

This is a similar level of trust that you give to banks not to seize your money, or to your bodyguard not to do you physical harm. Stealing data from a customer paying for hosting would be _very_ different, and much more scandalous, than identifying trends on a competitive marketplace and taking advantage of them by launching competing products.

Bad analogy, I can tell when the bank seizes my money.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#469

Post by chrischen » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

theturtletalks wrote: post #455

This is the exact reason why Shopify grew rapidly. Sellers knew they needed a platform where they own the data and could abstract the operations outside of Amazon seller dashboard. People also forget that Amazon doesn't have to pay to advertise its own products, but 3rd party sellers do. This immediately puts you at a disadvantage if you want your product at the top since you pay seller commission and advertising fee…

Amazon does have to pay. It is an opportunity cost to them.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#470

Post by johnnyballgame » Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

Amazon is a cesspool of scammers now. I created a listing for a physical book. I have yet to send a single book out to anyone and there are already two sellers trying to sell the book on the listing I created. And one is listed as a "collectible"!