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Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

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Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#461

Post by dunkelheit »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #107
cj wrote: post #5

> Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” So basically, the Go…

> injecting javascript into an employer's internal chrome extension The purpose of the extension is to serve site-specific pop-ups. Spiers added a pop-up to an existing pop-up tool using existing, precedented processes. The analogy to a poster in a cafeteria, which is explicitly protected by federal law, passes a first-order smell test.

> The analogy to a poster in a cafeteria, which is explicitly protected by federal law, passes a first-order smell test.

This doesn't feel like the right analogy. She (ab)used her access after all. A better one IMO would be a cafeteria worker sneaking in a leaflet among the napkins. Definitely feels less innocent.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#462

Post by username90 »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #384
dkersten wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She’s young and probably a bit naive. I think it’s absolutely a reprimand-worthy offence, and I certainly understand that a security engineer maybe shouldn’t inject code like she did, but that’s why there are reviewers, but they ok’d it. I don’t think it’s something she should have been fired over. I made dumb mistakes early in my career too, after all. Should she have done it? No, absolutely not. Not like that anywa…

The problem is, she insisted to the world (and presumably to Google as well) that she did nothing wrong here. This is a pretty minor thing to fire someone over - but what other option does a company have, when someone makes it clear that they refuse to behave properly?

> but what other option does a company have, when someone makes it clear that they refuse to behave properly?

You could tell them to stop instead of firing them after the first offense.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#463

Post by w0m »

thinkingemote wrote: post #381
thu2111 wrote: post #364

I think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture here and are too zoomed in on the specific issue of unionisation. Google really had no choice here, and it's actually a problem for them that this is coming out now via a blog post by the fired employee and not by their own admission. Google is in a phenomenally trusted position in the world. Chrome is the most popular browser. It auto updates silently and contin…

She didn't weaponise a neutral extension. The extension was already weaponised. It already pushed notifications to users when they visited flagged URLs. She probably just changed a config file to add a new rule and message, 1 line.

1 line, but completely changing the point of the tool in the first place

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#464

Post by tehjoker »

dhdhebsb wrote: post #430
helen___keller wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agreed with this at first, but according to her medium post ( https://medium.com/@ksspiers/google-fires-another-worker-for... ) "Part of my job was to write browser notifications so that my coworkers can be automatically notified of employee guidelines and company policies while they surf the web" If this is true and her job is literally to create javascript notifications of company policy, then I think it's entire…

IMO the problem was putting the pop up on the IRI consultants website. She wasn’t protecting anyone or informing anyone of policy, she was being inflammatory and I don’t see it as a stretch for G to say she abused her position to inject that message.

It's inflammatory for Google to retain an anti-labor union cracking firm.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#465

Post by decebalus1 »

raxxorrax wrote: post #451
decebalus1 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Giant piles of money. Not anymore, really. It was the case a couple of years ago but right now, for rank-and-file employees, Google downlevels heavily and targets around 80% of the market rate. For some reason, people are still flocking at their doors and because of high supply of candidates, they can afford to be both very selective and very cheap.

Probably still a net plus if you have Google on your resume and decide to look elsewhere.

that's what 'my' (as it's the same person pinging me for the past couple of years) recruiter keeps telling me. It's not a net plus considering that I can just look elsewhere in the first place. No point in taking a paycheck cut for a while to do some boring work for a company about which I have ethical concerns so that maybe when I want to change jobs I'll have a competitive edge.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#466

Post by username90 »

qaq wrote: post #449
username90 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google did tolerate exactly the same kind of behavior from the internal OS distribution team before, you could argue that security is even more important there than in a browser plugin.

I am not a Googler but I reiterate I know exactly 0 CSOs that would tolerate this. You providing an example outside of security team kindah reinforces my point.

The internal OS distribution team is a security team. They ensure that the OS everyone at Google works on and run their code on is secure.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#467

Post by kache_ »

iwantagrinder wrote: post #19
kache_ wrote: post #7

>Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” You should get fired…

Did you not read the part where she did, where she followed the process by the book and it was approved? Or did you just have your mind made up to decide to side with Google instead?

In this case, the people who approved it should be fired as co-conspirators. The sanctity of the software that runs on employee's hardware should never be violated.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#468

Post by scarface74 »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #422
scarface74 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was using a security tool to spread her message. Does that seem appropriate to you?

> She was using a security tool to spread her message. Does that seem appropriate to you? Yes, of course. Apparently this "security tool" exists to notify Googlers of policy, and the notification just linked to a Google policy notice with a warning not to violate it. This is apparently the actual notification that was displayed: https://miro.medium.com/max/2000/0*1BTVYLTvuHiJVvp_.jpg > Do not violate go/nlrbnotice. G…

Yes email exists to notify employees too but just because I can email the entire company doesn’t mean that I should take it upon myself to notify them about anything that’s not in my job description.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#469

Post by sneak »

drakonka wrote: post #409

It feels weird for me to read comments in this thread debating about and assuming a simple note about unionization or organization by an employee whose job it was to do exactly this kind of thing is "not in good faith" or a "violation". In my mind this kind of thing has the same sentiment as _any_ policy notice. The world in which notifying people that they have the right to organize is a "violation" is a really mess…

Choosing which facts to be highlighted is an editorial decision. Google probably already complied with the letter of the law by publishing this fact internally at least once.

Whether it is published once or 1000 times is editorial. It is not within scope of their job to notify >1 time if Google’s management wants employees to be nominally reminded of their rights against their employer exactly once.

Note that I am not arguing for or against; I personally think it’s wrong she was fired and I hope the wage-thieves at Google get held to the flames over it. But let’s not pretend that she wasn’t editorializing because it can be described as “simply distributing a fact”.

She was further distributing a fact which is in her former employer’s best interest to publicize the minimum amount required by law.

That’s why retaliation like this is illegal. I’m surprised they’re surprised; Google has already conspired (and gotten caught) to illegally cheat employees out of billions of dollars of wages.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#470

Post by scarface74 »

calcifer wrote: post #433
scarface74 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was using a security tool to spread her message. Does that seem appropriate to you?

You keep moving the goalposts every time someone refutes one of your points. > Does that seem appropriate to you? Yes. It's a tool for showing notifications related to the page being visited. Not to mention the whole thing is appropriate on moral grounds, regardless of any technicality.

So that means she should be able to inject her opinion on any site that she doesn’t like?
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