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Apple has locked me out of my developer account

rambo.codes

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Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#461

Post by FussyZeus »

Razengan wrote: post #334
FussyZeus wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has tons of goodwill with their users, and that's what matters. That's who pays the bills, and that's who funds the App Store. From the beginning Apple has had a very standoff-ish relationship with their developers. Their rules are clear from the outset: Play by them, or don't publish on our platform. To be honest I think developers occasionally still got entirely too much leeway to break their guidelines and g…

It looks like someone is grudge-downvoting all your comments no matter what you say. I just want to add that I'm an Apple user and developer and I agree with you. There have been past stories right here, when HN flip-flopped between taking a suspended developer's side and then Apple's after it turned out that the dev was not being fully honest. Lemme dig that link up. I love Rambo (the dev) and the information he pro…

> It looks like someone is grudge-downvoting all your comments no matter what you say.

Welcome to the Internet! :)

> I love Rambo (the dev) and the information he provides but he clearly violated the NDA. I wonder how the pitchforkers here would handle it if someone violated their company's NDA.

Yeah see, I don't know this person from a hole in the wall, so I have no attachment and that's kind of how you have to approach these things. I've seen this song and dance so many times when someone who has social pull in a given community suffers a blow. It's not fun to swing the hammer (or at least it never was for me) but someone has to.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#462

Post by klyrs »

anoncake wrote: post #448
qtplatypus wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your idea would compel companies to support speech that they don’t believe in. This is tantamount to forced speech.

The point of free speech is to make democracy work. There's no reason to grant it to companies.

You should really familiarize yourself with caselaw surrounding speech, and educate yourself about rights other than the freedom of speech. Your ideology is far too removed from reality, but your phrasing is too absolute. Be honest about the difference between your desires and legal reality. Otherwise, nobody is going to take you seriously.

I'm fairly leftist, and I support a pretty strong freedom of speech, but I'm also familiar enough with other rights to see how they get balanced against one another, a la "the right to swing your fist ends at my face." I read popehat, because the authors are attorneys specializing in the first amendment. They defend people I find deplorable; they've got politics I disagree with. But I keep reading, because they're experts and it's a good source of fact.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#463

Post by tomxor »

cmcd wrote: post #452
tomxor wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not think you can say Apple has a monopoly over iOS as it is a product not a market. Would be equivalent to saying Tesla has a monopoly over Tesla infotainment software That is an absurd comparison, Apple is one of a duopoly, there are only two mobile app marketplaces, thus, iOS is a market.

Tesla has a larger share of the electric car market in the US than Apple has of the mobile phone market. Claiming that Apple has a monopoly over the App Store is just as unreasonable as claiming Tesla has a monopoly over the Apps installed on their cars. The App Store is a feature of iOS devices, if Apple decided they no longer wanted an App Store they could remove it entirely. It is not reasonable to require Hardwar…

> Tesla has a larger share of the electric car market in the US than Apple has of the mobile phone market.

You are comparing a tiny subset of the car market with the entire smartphone market. A more proportional comparison would be electric-car market vs feature-phone market.

> The App Store is a feature of iOS devices, if Apple decided they no longer wanted an App Store they could remove it entirely.

No, they couldn't, it would kill the iPhone... Removing apps from a tesla? maybe it would make some people unhappy, but it still functions as a car, as far as a car is concerned it is ancillary.

Availability of apps, programs etc beyond the vendors creations are a critical function to any computer platform that is not single use - Isn't this obvious? Do you really think the value of iPhones to the majority of it's users are merely as a more advanced feature phone?

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#464

Post by IAmEveryone »

asabjorn wrote: post #387
IAmEveryone wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This platform/publisher meme has always been a misunderstanding of the law. I guess now it's even being shoved into situations that have absolutely nothing to do with it?

How is that a misunderstanding of the requirements to be a platform to be protected from liability under section 230 [1]? [1] https://www.eff.org/issues/cda230

Section 230 explicitly says that making editorial judgements does not make you liable for the content you publish:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of—

(A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable"

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#465

Post by bsder »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #446
bsder wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think ToS that say "We can screw you and you can't do anything about it." need to get ripped up once you reach monopoly status. At the very least, Apple and Google should have to appoint a "public ombudsman" overseen by the government that handles these kinds of complaints/problems that people can actually contact . And if they don't seem to be handling them very well, they need to get fined increasingly severely u…

So the government should create a taxpayer-paid ombudsman, who will accept complaints from developers about tech companies with, say, >20% market share. And that ombudsman will arbitrate between the tech companies and the developers, with the power to impose fines on the tech companies if they think the developer was treated unfairly. OK. That works in other industries, so could work here. But in this case, where the…

> But in this case, where the developer (we think) has clearly broken the ToS of the agreement, which was basically "we will provide you with privileged access to information so that you can develop for upcoming products, but please don't share that with the public". What do you think the ombudsman should do?

What you normally do with such a person?

People who break NDAs get punished according to the NDA. You take them to court and you hit them with the correct penalty. Or you do what most normal companies do and simply omit them from anything requiring an NDA in the future.

You don't get to summarily punish them with no notice and no explanation. You don't get to yank their iTunes, iCloud or development account unless that is a specific term of the NDA. You don't get to exert punishments simply because you can.

When you act like that, you are creating a "blacklist" and the law generally takes a dim view of that.

These companies have been operating above the law for far too long because 1) what they provide is "free" so damages are difficult to prove and 2) they are so big that most individuals really can't oppose them.

The only way anyone punishes these companies is if they happen to have a big enough social following to provoke enough negative PR to actually cost the company money.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#466

Post by supernova87a »

bogwog wrote: post #431
supernova87a wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, your conclusion that "this needs to be regulated" is highly debatable as a matter of public policy. Clearly I disagree. "Inhibited growth potential", especially in the pursuit of developing apps for iPhone, certainly doesn't fall on the side of being a fundamental right that people are being deprived of. I personally exercise a bit more restraint in saying that things call for government intervention.

> doesn't fall on the side of being a fundamental right that people are being deprived of What does that have to do with this? Anti-trust laws are to protect competitive forces in the market, not human rights. Allowing these companies to have limitless control over millions of jobs with no regulation whatsoever gives us the crappy situation we have today. Someone could have their developer account terminated by accid…

Your arguments are no more substantive or backed by hard facts than mine. I could quote a multitude of benefits of not stepping in to regulate such markets just as you quote a case (actually, one rare case that made the headlines) of someone whose user account was affected by clearly not-the-most-innocent circumstances. So who's to win? That's why there are courts and policymakers. Glad it's not just up to your (or my) hypothetical victims.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#467

Post by anoncake »

klyrs wrote: post #462
anoncake wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of free speech is to make democracy work. There's no reason to grant it to companies.

You should really familiarize yourself with caselaw surrounding speech, and educate yourself about rights other than the freedom of speech. Your ideology is far too removed from reality, but your phrasing is too absolute. Be honest about the difference between your desires and legal reality. Otherwise, nobody is going to take you seriously. I'm fairly leftist, and I support a pretty strong freedom of speech, but I'm…

Where did I say anything about US law?

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#468

Post by klyrs »

anoncake wrote: post #467
klyrs wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should really familiarize yourself with caselaw surrounding speech, and educate yourself about rights other than the freedom of speech. Your ideology is far too removed from reality, but your phrasing is too absolute. Be honest about the difference between your desires and legal reality. Otherwise, nobody is going to take you seriously. I'm fairly leftist, and I support a pretty strong freedom of speech, but I'm…

Where did I say anything about US law?

Aside from the Principality of Sealand, is there a country whose laws reflect your ideology? Genuinely curious.

But to answer your question, apple is first and foremost a US company.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#469

Post by scarface74 »

tripzilch wrote: post #460
scarface74 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws weren't "changed" to make those monopolies. They were monopolies by the original definition of the law. And whether you "personally" think they are monopolies. They are in no sense of the word "monopolies" by any definition that has been used by the US or EU.

You really have no idea about the actual regulations do you? You're just arguing against a strict definition of the word "monopoly, which is utterly besides the point. Again, the regulations in the EU speak of the term "market dominance", in order to decide whether a case is anti-competitive or not. They do not (as far as I'm aware) mention the word "monopoly", except perhaps in a figurative sense.

Well, if I have “no idea”, please give an example of where “market dominance” was defined as narrowly as you’re trying to define it.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#470

Post by bsder »

scarface74 wrote: post #415
bsder wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The laws weren't "changed" to make those monopolies. They were monopolies by the original definition of the law. This is not correct. Nothing like the Sherman Act existed prior to it even though there were "anti-competition" rules from common law. The Sherman Act was a product of its times and changed the laws and the way of thinking about monopolies. Standard Oil was never a "monopoly" according to your definition…

If that’s the case, that my assertions are shallower than the real world application, where is the real world application of any definition of “monopoly” that the EU or the US has applied to platforms that don’t even have 50% market share?

I have already demonstrated that Standard Oil was broken up in spite of not being a "monopoly" or having more than 50% market share. That is an example--you can look up others.

I have no duty to continue to engage to someone who can't exhibit simple reading comprehension or basic use of Google.

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