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NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

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Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#461

Post by chrischen »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #379
chrischen wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised how much support the government has in China, among Chinese people, even if they oppress some of their people. But just because they don't hold public elections doesn't mean they do not draw their legitimacy from the people. And furthermore, if they did not have a legitimate claim to power the people of China can overthrow them, not a foreigner. They don't need the US to install a leader for them.

> But just because they don't hold public elections doesn't mean they do not draw their legitimacy from the people Got any other zingers you want to tell me with a straight face?

They do have elections... you just have to join the communist party. Much like how you would have to join one of two political parties here to have a practical vote, and even then you have to navigate the tricky electoral college that disenfranchises some voters.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#462

Post by chrischen »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #373
chrischen wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised how much support the government has in China, among Chinese people, even if they oppress some of their people. But just because they don't hold public elections doesn't mean they do not draw their legitimacy from the people. And furthermore, if they did not have a legitimate claim to power the people of China can overthrow them, not a foreigner. They don't need the US to install a leader for them.

This is impossible to know because of how censorship works.

It is “impossible” by your definition everywhere then. There is misinformation and propaganda everywhere. Spin is propaganda, advertising is propaganda, and FOX News is propaganda.

You gauge by whoever takes political action, whether or not you think they are properly informed.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#463

Post by CompanionCuuube »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #458
CompanionCuuube wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so they just subscribe to profit ethics. It all makes sense now.

Again, is that worse than doing the wrong thing both times? Naming an action does not affect its outcome.

How so? The nature of profit ethics is that the right thing to do is what is profitable. This is exactly what they are doing in both cases. They have never done "the wrong thing".

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#464

Post by eutropia »

skokage wrote: post #372
rsync wrote: post #128

What if this blows up in the other direction ? How many Chinese will pay attention to "whatever those people are doing in Hong Kong" for the first time because of this ? Which is to say, what if lots of young Chinese stand up and take notice that they can't watch world class professional basketball anymore ? I am well aware that there is homegrown professional basketball in China, but the $4B number suggests they wan…

>How many Chinese will pay attention to "whatever those people are doing in Hong Kong" for the first time because of this ? Most of them are already aware, and due to state ran media and an ultra-nationalistic view, are in full support of CCP and are very much against HK and their protests. Here is a video from a guy who lived in China for over a decade, is married to a mainland Chinese woman, has family both in Hong…

He finishes the video by saying: "there is no oppression here guys".

Which is blatantly false. I know it's a tired meme, but there's an Orwellian panopticon powered by computers which literally rates each and every person by their level of socially desirable metrics and materially affects their daily life. That is oppression of freedom, and it's only the beginning. We've been down this road before with other autocracies in the past, but they weren't powered by machine learning...

That being said the video did give an important perspective of the overwhelming level of patriotism the Chinese people have for their country.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#465

Post by repolfx »

VladimirIvanov wrote: post #398
repolfx wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the UBS pig incident: https://fortune.com/2019/06/17/ubs-china-pig-paul-donovan/ That one wasn't even anything apparently political, just absurd snowflake-scale sensitivity on the part of a whole country: Donovan made the “Chinese pig” comment on Wednesday as he attempted to explain why the country’s swine flu outbreak shouldn’t concern investors eyeing the international inflation outlook. “Does this matter? It…

I didn't follow this at the time but I can immediately see that there exactly two ways to interpret the "Chinese pig" comment and one is very insulting. I'm guessing that the person who said the quote did not mean it as an insult

No, there's really no sane way to interpret that statement as being insulting. The entire statement was about swine flu, pork production and other very obviously pig-related things. Only a terribly incompetent mistranslation could have yielded an insult out of it, and such a mistranslation would surely have been detected immediately.

There's just no sensible explanation for why anyone would get upset by that statement.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#466

Post by repolfx »

chrischen wrote: post #337
repolfx wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might seem persnickety, but criticism of mainland China can't be racism because Taiwanese are the same race and people aren't criticising them for this kind of thing (because they don't do it). It's really not even criticism of the Chinese people, who have no say in the matter either way and tend to be harshly punished for disagreeing. In the end it's all just criticism of a specific government. Doesn't need to go fu…

And the vast majority of Chinese people in China do support the government, for doing, among other things, bringing hundreds of millions out of poverty. The primary beneficiary of the Chinese government is the Chinese people there, and attacking the government is an indirect attack on the people there because The USA government, Australia, or any other non China government is not going to take after Chinese citizens.

Uh, do they? How do you know? The opinions of mainland Chinese about their government are completely worthless; they simply aren't allowed to disagree or learn about the world in a neutral manner.

For example, the Chinese government has not "lifted millions out of poverty", that's pure propaganda. Human society lifts itself out of poverty when not prevented from doing so by totalitarian governments. Japan was destroyed by war and became a rich first world nation within decades. South Korea became fully developed in also just a few decades. Plenty of other examples of that.

China is behind the rest of the world because of its government. If it weren't for the Great Leap Forward and then decades of economically devastating communism, China would be as developed as the USA or South Korea is by now. The fact that its people are still so poor can be laid squarely at the feet of its government.

But how many Chinese will think that? Probably not many. They are stuck in a system designed to mould them into loyal subjects from birth.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#467

Post by farah7 »

sexy_seedbox wrote: post #408
xlc0212 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to point it out it is not only Chinese government, but also Chinese people, the people were enjoying the NBA, are abandoning it. This actually hurts the feeling of the fans.

They're abandoning anyone and everyone who hurt their feelings because of blind/toxic nationalism. Just take a look at this Weibo poll ( there are no wrong answers ): https://twitter.com/rhokilpatrick/status/1181591094473052160

Let's not kid ourselves that there's any such thing as a genuine poll on a Chinese government communication poll. Give me a break.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#468

Post by kscarlet »

_ptgt wrote: post #425
chadcmulligan wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the big problems I find with people supporting the Chinese position on something is that - are they really supporting it, or is this propaganda? Given the level of control on the media and internet there, it is impossible to know.

As I mentioned above, the Chinese are undoubtedly extremely sensitive about HK (I would argue due to propaganda but that’s irrelevant to the question). There is some amount of authenticity this (definitely at least 50%) and the HK protests are truly almost universally very unpopular in the mainland. That said, the degree to which this particular outrage is manufactured by Beijing vs organic is extremely difficult to…

for the nba case, i'm pretty sure its organic.. moreover, its chinese netizen pushes the gov to take action. the very first discussion happens probably on diba (sth like 4chan). then the screenshot of the tweet spread virally with outrage of netizens. after that the gov notices it and takes action

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#469

Post by lern_too_spel »

CompanionCuuube wrote: post #463
lern_too_spel wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, is that worse than doing the wrong thing both times? Naming an action does not affect its outcome.

How so? The nature of profit ethics is that the right thing to do is what is profitable. This is exactly what they are doing in both cases. They have never done "the wrong thing".

I am asking if there exists any ethical system under which their actions are worse than doing what the original poster considers to be wrong in both cases.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#470

Post by wuliwong »

jmpman wrote: post #387
silexia wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should boycott the NBA.

We can do better than that. Show up at every Brooklyn Nets game, sitting behind the basket with signs which... aren’t China friendly.

Apparently people have done that and have gotten kicked out of NBA preseason games in the United States!

https://www.dailywire.com/news/shameful-fans-with-free-hong-...

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