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China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

asiatimes.com

461–470 of 503 posts

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#461
Im not sure anyone read this article through. It states an experimental 200km stretch of fullsize vacuum tubing is to be built by Hubei to validate low air resistance travel to 600/1000kph. The competition is the US/Germany and the build out will be in the next 10 years. So we are talking about hyperloops here.. A quick search shows hyperloop tt has 320m of 4m tubes and possibly by now a 1km section strung up on pylons for completion by end 2019 (in france).

Chinas maglev was a seimens tech transfer circa 2002, siemens / thyssenkrup disbanded their maglev company in 2008 after the munich line plan was abandoned.

So no one is interested in conventional maglevs, the cost per mile i imagine is not worth it. If you make it 1k kph however and reduce airport build spends this cost may change drastically. If you can get your superconducter cooling sorted.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#462

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

As a former rail fan, I’ve gotten over it. We don’t build infrastructure because we don’t value it. Not just in a “we don’t want to spend the money”—but we don’t want to make the political compromises necessary to make it easy to build infrastructure.

Dropping taxes on companies has nothing to do with it. Many European countries have lower corporate taxes than we do, and no OECD country raises significant revenue from corporate taxes. It’s a red herring and a distraction. The issue is we have a political system that makes infrastructure enormously more expensive and hard to build than in Europe (much less China). In Maryland, people are lobbying to get light rail stations torn down that have already been built! The average time spent in “environmental review” for a government project is 5 years, and its really just an opportunity for a small minority to hold up and delay infrastructure projects. But that system is a reflection of our values. We don’t build things because we would rather prioritize other values.

That is what it is. We are good at other things! We’re good at things like Silicon Valley, that don’t require centralized cooperation and people falling in line. Lots of countries have the political discipline to build rail. But there is no other Silicon Valley! (What more needs to be said about why California doesn’t have rail, beyond noting that the state’s most significant industry is based in the suburbs/exurbs of an otherwise second tier city?)

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's why Japan and Europe don't have high speed rail either.

They were built before environmental regulation was implemented, the same as the US interstate system. None of those could be built today as cheaply or easily as pre-1970s. If at all.

Looking at the dates when the high speed lines (AVE) were opened in Spain [1], save for one (1992), all the rest were opened after 2003, and most were opened in the last decade.

France keeps extending their network too... Same with other countries.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE#Lines_in_operation

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#464
post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time in the west when we build the infrastructure we watch decaying today. I don't think we had totalitarian regimes, concentration camps and involuntary organ harvesting back then.

Which regime do you think built the Autobahn? The American railroads also weren’t built by the nicest, human rights-respecting, non-genocidal, people.

Large parts of the German infrastructure were in fact not built by Hitler, or were destroyed in the war and rebuilt afterwards.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A major problem with train systems in the United States (and this is both short and long haul) is that almost the entire country is sprawl - built around the automobile. this is an excuse i have repeated myself, but it is just that, an excuse. have you actually been to china? i have never seen such sprawl. shanghai is massive and sprawling. but yet, they (china) have extremely efficient and unbelievably cheap train…

> this is an excuse i have repeated myself, but it is just that, an excuse. have you actually been to china? i have never seen such sprawl. shanghai is massive and sprawling. but yet, they (china) have extremely efficient and unbelievably cheap trains and subways. also, i have never seen a cleaner subway than what i saw in shanghai. Shanghai’s massive but I don’t think sprawling is really the right word. Where people…

Does sprawling imply not dense?

As densely constructed as the city of Shanghai may be, 2-hour commutes are not uncommon because millions of people live that far from the city center.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We would be better off disrupting the BS of air travel then building out train networks. I've often dreamed of a world that comes to its senses and realizes that adding all the extra bull to flying hasn't done any good and there was a consistent effort to eliminate it all. Imagine if flying was as easy as getting on a train or bus. Buy a pass. Sign up for a slot on a flight online. Show up DIRECTLY to the ga…

That does nothing about the fact that flying is destroying our environment and emits greenhouse gas emissions 2 orders of magnitude over the same trip by train.

If you ammortize the environmental impact of building the rail network over all the rail trips, it might swing the other way. Especially if someone figures out carbon neutral air travel in the next decade.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#467
post #426
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to get glossy eyed over China. Yes, there are advantages to a totalitarian regime where the population isn’t allowed to own land. There are also modern day concentration camps and mass organ harvesting. Unfortunately you don’t really get one without tending to get the other.

Few years back there were stories about officials removing graveyards to give way for industrial developments. It's really easy to get things done when one only need to answer to above, not below. I've tried to dig for references, but it's very difficult to find discussions 2+ years back, let along official news.

Removing graveyards for developments both residential and industrial was a big thing in Singapore post-WW2. It worked out very well for them.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#468

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

Been in New York City for the last ten years, so I certainly understand where you’re coming from. A few points:

1. Corporate income taxes don’t generate much revenue, and the revenue they do bring in is even smaller relative to the amount of harm and economic distortion it causes. It really only carries on because it’s a useful political football and because having it appeals to a certain sense of “fairness.” There’s really no correlation between corporate taxation and infrastructure, and we might even be better off without the former altogether.

2. The US does spend a lot every year on infrastructure, but it gets relatively little bang for its buck, especially in comparison to places like China; even other advanced economies (France, UK, etc.) seem to be better at controlling costs for these types of projects.

3. We also spend a ton of money every year on precisely the wrong type of infrastructure. The Federal government, in addition to every state and local government, spends enormous sums every year on not only maintaining existing roads, but also widening, adding lanes, or even building new ones. In fact I remember reading that something like one out of every two dollars spent on roads goes to build new ones, even as people decry that the government isn’t adequately maintaining the roads that already exist. That’s insane - but it’s tied up in how funds are allocated, cost sharing agreements, etc. that often comes out of Congress. In short, the Feds will pick up an enormous proportion of the tab for building new state and local roads, but contribute very little to maintaining them. It should be easy to see, then, that building new roads is often more lucrative for contractors, politicians, governments, etc. than simply maintaining what they already have.

4. All the money we just talked about spending on roads is money that was not spent on upgrading sewers, water, power, public services, and everything else that help support denser urban areas like New York. So in effect, we are starving economically vibrant cities like NY of federal funds at the same time we subsidize the continued expansion of suburbia, none of which have the density required to make massive investments in things like railroads anywhere close to economically viable.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does nothing about the fact that flying is destroying our environment and emits greenhouse gas emissions 2 orders of magnitude over the same trip by train.

If you ammortize the environmental impact of building the rail network over all the rail trips, it might swing the other way. Especially if someone figures out carbon neutral air travel in the next decade.

If we are factoring in imaginary future tech then someone could invent carbon neutral trains

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A major problem with train systems in the United States (and this is both short and long haul) is that almost the entire country is sprawl - built around the automobile. this is an excuse i have repeated myself, but it is just that, an excuse. have you actually been to china? i have never seen such sprawl. shanghai is massive and sprawling. but yet, they (china) have extremely efficient and unbelievably cheap train…

If you want to see what prices would be in the U.S, look at Japan. Tokyo to Kyoto one way is 13,080 yen ($120) for the cheapest ticket, for a distance of 226 miles. About the same distance as DC to New York. A lot of people think high speed rail would be cheaper to flying, in reality it's often the same or more than flying today. And it then costs billions of dollars to build the rail. As for subways, that unfortunat…

Japan also makes driving less attractive since they privatized their highway network and put tolls on nearly the whole thing, so driving Tokyo to Kyoto will cost you half as much just in tolls (it starts making sense economically when you're a family and driving one car vs buying 4 tickets)
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