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Python Is Eating the World

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Re: Python Is Eating the World

#461

Post by Dowwie »

While I use more than just Python in my work, it remains my go-to toolset for a range of tasks. For instance, Python offers the best interactive programming experience of any language today. You can step through code flow and inspect values with great ease. This is particularly valuable during prototyping, as you are getting a handle on interactions between your application and third party dependencies. Further, as designs take shape, you can quickly assemble a proof of concept and learn how to address a problem or design. Python can be used with little or any inheritance. Adopt a compositional style. You can assign types. You don't need to use all of its bells and whistles if you don't want to. This allows you to use Python in a way that streamlines it for porting to a strongly typed, high performance language such as Rust, should the need or desire to do so ever arise.

The Python community is truly global, hosting local events in hundreds of countries. So many talented, helpful people have been dedicated to the language and community over a very long period of time. Look at its ecosystem on GitHub to get an idea of how that manifests. Questions about how to solve a problem are often a single search away from being answered on Stack Overflow, Google groups and countless channels on Freenode IRC. Python conferences are a great place to learn and connect.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#462

Post by melling »

rohan1024 wrote: post #449
Ensorceled wrote: post #436

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

I don't think its hyperbolic. If so many people are complaining then we have a issue. I have tried to learn Python but every time I did, some things kept turning me off. - First indentation was a issue for me but I looked past it and went ahead to give another go at Python. - Even the best in class IDE suffer to give any kind of insight into python code. - Two versions: At my workplace we use Python 2. I prefer to le…

Python 2 support ends in less than 5 months. They extended the deadline 5 years ago.

I’d say deprecation has been initiated.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#463

Post by aikah »

WaxProlix wrote: post #220
KirinDave wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of my complaints about Python are valid for Go, except that Go makes even more perilous decisions than Python for error handling (and the community kinda gleefully embraces it). But at least Go is a lot faster and has real concurrency AND parallelism, so it's definitely better than Python.

Go makes worse decisions even, I'd say. Python has gevent, one of the best and most friendly greenlet libs around too, so the concurrency/parallel issues seem fairly moot. It's true that the batteries-included versions of things, while mostly easy to use, falter at scale.

> so the concurrency/parallel issues seem fairly moot.

Python has the GIL, so true parallelism can only be achieved with basically cloning a process X times the number of processors on a computer and inter process communication.

Go doesn't have this problem.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#464

Post by Ensorceled »

foldr wrote: post #455
einpoklum wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python's PIP? Or do you mean Anaconda? Or VirtualEnv? Or Poetry, which someone here has pointed to? Also - you're moving the rhetorical goalpost. First you claimed there was no package management system, no you're complaining about the lack of default.

Given that OP was talking about getting C/C++ packages "off a usenet archive", I think it's clear that they were talking about what coding C and C++ was like two or more decades ago.

Exactly -- one of the blog posts on the page they link to has a "3 Month Anniversary Survey"

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#465

Post by shortercode »

DonHopkins wrote: post #159

It's so refreshing to not see anyone here whining about Python forcing them to indent their code properly. The kind of people who think that's a PROBLEM instead of a FEATURE really should not be ever writing any new code, and instead should be punished by forcing them to maintain other people's code written with that same lazy misguided attitude, until they recognize how self indulgent, inconsiderate, and disrespectf…

I consider it a must that code should be correctly indented, no matter the language. What I have issue with is relying on whitespace to represent scope etc. With .sass files I've had too many occasions where moving the content around between editors has completely borked the file, and without braces it's tedious to correct the indentation. This is mostly the fault of text editors trying to be "smart" about indentation, and failing miserably, but it's a pain I'd rather not exist.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#466

Post by mobilefriendly »

This is wrong in terms of the web space. With the modernization of PHP and the emergence of Laravel, and continued evolution of Drupal and Wordpress, I don't think PHP has ever been this dominant in the web stack. Django is an also-ran.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#467

Post by netheril96 »

einpoklum wrote: post #445
vkazanov wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, pls, go on and tell us how it's a default package management tool for C/C++... It is a step forward, sure, but it's a far cry from Python's pip or Rust's Cargo or even Dlang's dub.

Python's PIP? Or do you mean Anaconda? Or VirtualEnv? Or Poetry, which someone here has pointed to? Also - you're moving the rhetorical goalpost. First you claimed there was no package management system, no you're complaining about the lack of default.

Technically he's wrong, and you are right, in that there are package management systems for C++. Practically, your being technically correct does not matter.

No package management for C++ is popular enough for C++ programmers to avoid all the hardworks of manually managing packages, because there are always some (or most) packages you rely on not in these package management systems.

pip, for all its shortcomings, does include almost all of the Python packages you ever need to use. That is a significant different in practice.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#468

Post by Ensorceled »

odiroot wrote: post #458
Ensorceled wrote: post #436

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

Agreed. I really don't understand all these buckets filth being poured on Python in this thread. It's a first language I worked with in my life that just clicked with my brain and doesn't just drain me. I would take a Python job over a Java/C/C++/Go/Rust any day. There's some languages that could pull me away from Python (Nim, Crystal) but they're nowhere popular enough to move wholesale to them.

I've worked in so many languages and environments in my career and Django/python/virtualenv has to be one of the least painful. I tried Rails which is very similar but feels "inside out", a good friend of mine loves Rails and hates Django and has the exact same feeling about Django.

That's kind of my point, you may like other environments better, such as React/Node/NPM but that doesn't mean Python is a horror show.

I'm quite enjoying Go though.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#469

Post by rohan1024 »

moksly wrote: post #457
rohan1024 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its hyperbolic. If so many people are complaining then we have a issue. I have tried to learn Python but every time I did, some things kept turning me off. - First indentation was a issue for me but I looked past it and went ahead to give another go at Python. - Even the best in class IDE suffer to give any kind of insight into python code. - Two versions: At my workplace we use Python 2. I prefer to le…

> At my workplace we use Python 2. You’re probably aware of this, but at the odd chance you aren’t, Python 2 end of life is 2020. You really should be moving to Python 3. > Go does this. There is a lot of love for Go and Rust on HN, but unless your region of the world is significantly different than mine, then chances are that there won’t be a Go or Rust job in your lifetime. I’ve only ever seen one of them mentioned…

> "nice to know"

So true. There are tonne of Python, Java and other legacy software jobs compared to Go.

I am probably gonna have to learn Python (which I think is better than existing legacy technologies) because of this though I am not really interested.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#470

Post by mantap »

blub wrote: post #389
mantap wrote: post #67

In general JavaScript is eating the world. Python still dominates in numerical computing and JavaScript hasn't been able to make a single dent. Because nobody wants to write a.mul(k).add(b) rather than k * a + b or a.set([i,j], b) rather than a[i,j] = b JavaScript's lack of operator overloading is keeping Python alive. Python also has integers that feel part of the language, rather than being segregated from normal n…

You're enormously overstating the influence of JS on things outside of the JS ecosystem.

Consider that 10 years ago Ruby and Python used to be spoken about as a pair, with Ruby being the more popular one. Now Ruby is rarely heard about, JavaScript has eaten it whole and only the bones remain.
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