Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet • Hacker News Board

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#461

Post by mklarmann » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #146

mklarmann wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge your opinion: I wouldn’t call the world consensus of the IPCC poor science. It is actually the opposite: the best science we have available. The report goes into depth about the health benefits these diets have also.

The IPCC is now the authority on human nutrition?

I do recommend the studies of the global burden of disease project as an authority for what is healthy [1] Springman, cited on chapter 5 of the report, goes into depth relying on those evidences for modeling the potential diets. [2]

That is what the IPCC references. Great work, published in nature, peer reviewed and pretty solid science.

[1]: http://www.healthdata.org/gbd [2]: https://eatforum.org/eat-lancet-commission/

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#462

Post by grardb » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #453

cribbles wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate welfare is one thing. I'd also like to direct readers to this thread from yesterday: https://twitter.com/unabanned/status/1159272783676891136 - which persuasively argues (with multiple sources) that the US meat industry depends upon massive labor exploitation of undocumented immigrants in order to 1) suppress wages and 2) maintain an otherwise intolerable working environment. This shows that the problem is…

> which persuasively argues (with multiple sources) that the US meat industry depends upon massive labor exploitation of undocumented immigrants in order to 1) suppress wages and 2) maintain an otherwise intolerable working environment. That's well-known about the meat industry. The problem with suggesting it as a reason to avoid meat in favor of vegetable-based food is the same is well-known to be true of agricultur…

Good point, though when speaking of "intolerable working environments," many employees of slaughterhouses suffer from PTSD and drug/alcohol addiction, and also become more likely to be domestic abusers: https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/31/how-killing-animals-everyday-...

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#463

Post by marcus_holmes » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

mklarmann wrote: post #442

efiecho wrote: post #438

It's funny how HN is an echo chamber sometimes. Every time I'm reading a thread like this, it's flooded with post from people who have turned vegans or almost reduced meat to zero, and one could think that this is the norm. Like a few years back when HN was going on about how the whole world would now stop eating regular food, and consume some powder mixed with water, I think it was called Soylent or something. That…

This topic has gained substantial scientific evidence. More people have come to turns that the facts only point to possible solutions for the climate were we substantially eat less meat. Having you eat even more meat makes you indirectly responsible for people’s death. It might not be right. But in the near future (2-3 years) you might feel ashamed of what you said right now.

I'm fascinated that the solutions to climate change appear to line up neatly with the things that hippies have been saying for years (capitalism needs to be replaced with a state-managed global economy, nuclear power is bad, vegetarianism is good, bicycling is good, plant more trees).

Particularly the nuclear power option. That one makes no sense.

Concrete is a major source of CO2 emissions. In some places, it contributes more than agriculture. Why isn't that being targeted for scientific studies on its impact, and recommendations from the UN on practices? Or has it, and those are just not newsworthy enough to make the BBC take notice?

I'm probably being cynical, but it all smells of hidden agendas.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#464

Post by the_gastropod » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #458

the_gastropod wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with climate change, there are a handful of bad actors and contrarians claiming that the science is tainted. But for the better part of a century, we've known that saturated fats are linked to heart and cardiovascular disease. It's frustrating that this misinformation is so readily spread, as it literally causes people's early death—including one of the early vocal adherents to it, John Atkins, who suffered severa…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do I suppose you’ll disagree with his analysis because the FDA say eat loads of carbs.

Or because Nattia is a hack with close ties with the animal agricultural industry: https://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/the-money-behind-the-...

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#465

Post by easyat » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

efiecho wrote: post #438

It's funny how HN is an echo chamber sometimes. Every time I'm reading a thread like this, it's flooded with post from people who have turned vegans or almost reduced meat to zero, and one could think that this is the norm. Like a few years back when HN was going on about how the whole world would now stop eating regular food, and consume some powder mixed with water, I think it was called Soylent or something. That…

What is your point? You don't care about the impact of your dietary choices, great. What are you contributing with this post?

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#466

Post by flr03 » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #435

This is irresponsible advice because nutrition is not a solved problem. As long as we fail to solve it, as in, correctly predict the short, medium, and long term effects on heath and well being for people across all variations of genome and microbiome, not to mention activity level and medical conditions, people need to evaluate their food intake individually. Guilting people away from “taking care” of themselves bas…

I don't buy this. Sounds like an excuse to not change our habits. Diets have rapidly and continuously been changing over the last decades and I don't think mc donald's waited for the nutrition to be a "solved problem" before taking over the world with the big mac. Asking people to reduce their red meat consumption couldn't be worse than that.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#467

Post by shlant » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

elktea wrote: post #92

There's a good case to be made for humans being primarily meat eaters for much of our history and only eating plants as an alternative to starving - we certainly haven't had time to evolve to eat a vegetarian diet. Agriculture has only been around for a small fraction of our history and the skeletal record clearly shows how disasterous it was for our health. The current 'plant based' fad diet recommendations are back…

Sounds like a big ol' Paleo-esque Appeal to Nature argument.

> The current 'plant based' fad diet recommendations are backed up by some very poor science and may be seriously unsuitable for humans and for children in particular, nutrition-wise

Care to provide evidence to back that up? Your broad, evolutionary talking points and observations on stomach pH in your other response hardly backs up your strongly worded supposition.

Plant based diets have been practiced by not insignificant portions of the population beginning in the 6th-century BCE with Buddhism and Hinduism[1]. An estimated 20-40% of India is currently vegetarian[2]. Not sure "fad" is an accurate descriptor.

I'm sure you'd have a hard time refuting the unending amount of "poor science" that shows plant based diets are effective for longevity, treating obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and high blood pressure[3]. The AICR recommends a plant based diet to prevent cancer[4], and ten other major Nutritional Organizations recognize the health benefits[5].

"It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.

These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes."[5]

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism#Ancie...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country#India

3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

4. https://www.aicr.org/patients-survivors/healthy-or-harmful/v...

5. https://www.theplantway.com/is-vegan-healthy/

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#468

Post by shlant » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #146

mklarmann wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge your opinion: I wouldn’t call the world consensus of the IPCC poor science. It is actually the opposite: the best science we have available. The report goes into depth about the health benefits these diets have also.

The IPCC is now the authority on human nutrition?

how about 10 of some of the largest nutritional organizations?[1]

1. https://www.theplantway.com/is-vegan-healthy/

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#469

Post by showdeadplease » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

mklarmann wrote: post #442

efiecho wrote: post #438

It's funny how HN is an echo chamber sometimes. Every time I'm reading a thread like this, it's flooded with post from people who have turned vegans or almost reduced meat to zero, and one could think that this is the norm. Like a few years back when HN was going on about how the whole world would now stop eating regular food, and consume some powder mixed with water, I think it was called Soylent or something. That…

This topic has gained substantial scientific evidence. More people have come to turns that the facts only point to possible solutions for the climate were we substantially eat less meat. Having you eat even more meat makes you indirectly responsible for people’s death. It might not be right. But in the near future (2-3 years) you might feel ashamed of what you said right now.

> Having you eat even more meat makes you indirectly responsible for people’s death.

How many hamburgers == one human life? Please let me know so I can eat N-1 burgers before it's too late.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#470

Post by ashelmire » Fri, Aug 09, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #391

ashelmire wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vegan diets are being proved by lots of studies at being pretty shitty for you. As far as I can tell, this is completely false. Vegan diets do a lot of things well: reduce salt, saturated fat, and cholesterol intake, for example. Vegetarian / vegan diets improve cholesterol, blood sugar levels, and other things. Here's some citations of studies and papers that demonstrate vegan diets are better for you: https://www…

Truth is that there's very little consensus on this, it's all politics at the moment. You have pro-vegans and pro-meat/keto tribes, and they all have their claims and proofs. My own purely anecdotal experience is that actually both approaches work just fine, if done in a sensible way.

The only politics is when you look at dozens of studies on NIH and say "it's all politics" and counter with your anecdotal experience. This is like denial of climate science. Stop doing it. I'm not part of any tribe but the science tribe. Eating meat is unambiguously worse for the environment and worse for your health than non-meat diets. The scientific theory and studies on the subject are clear.

And I eat meat. Chowing on a burrito al pastor as we speak.