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Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

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Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the increase in anxiety is due to the growing wealth gap. Compounding that is the fact that those in control are actively working on maintaining that gap and will allow nothing to stand in the way, including the environment. The gap is growing worse and will continue to do so and that relentless pursuit of wealth at the top and the hopelessness of those in the middle is making the environment worse…

"So many of us live in quiet desperation". This is so true it hurts.

It's actually a famous quote, i.e.:

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.”

- Henry David Thoreau, Walden

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#462

To put things in context; If we wipe from the planet ALL vascular plants, all flowers and trees and ALL vertebrates, fishes, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals, the full pack, plus SIX major phylums of invertebrates including all molluscs, snails, clams and squids, ALL corals and jellyfishes, ALL starfishes and sea urchins, ALL sponges, ALL flatworms, parasites and free living, and every one tunicate described b…

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Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#463
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are saying is true. However never before have we humans been on the cusp of ecological collapse.

Check out the global temperature record. [1] In particular this [2] is the temperature from ice core readings for the past 800k years. Modern humans evolved sometime around 300k years ago. Can you imagine going through such sharp changes with negligible technology? They were surviving through these changes with little more than furs and basic woodworking. Consider the first evidence of something as trivial as metalwo…

Sigh.

I think you are trying to point out that we were wily enough to survive past swings with a fraction of the technological arsenal we have today. Is that fair?

We know some humans survived history. How many? Where did they live? Did the survivors stay in a single place called "home" for thousands of years, change be damned? Did the survivors follow good weather and food? Did they live near the ocean, where all temperature variations are smoothed out? Did they migrate for adventure, or follow the whims of season and climate?

When they moved to a new place, were there already humans there? Was there enough space, shelter, and food for both groups? Did they welcome each other, or fight?

It's not that I think you're wrong. We're creative, resourceful, persistent, stubborn, and adaptable. But I think the picture you're making leaves something important out. For most of that graph, we were smart, rare, small-group primates that used wit, teamwork, and basic tools to overcome our natural environments.

It's probably no coincidence that metalworking turns up so near the emergence of our early social and organizational super-organisms. You don't need bronze tools to hunt shellfish, fruit, or rabbits. Our super-organisms needed them to raze forests, clear land, excavate rock, and make war.

Surviving climate change is not be about overcoming our environment a final time. I agree, that is a fight we could win. Surviving climate change is about overcoming our nature as individuals, the nature of the social and organizational super-organisms we form, and the historical accumulated impact of both with interest.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#464
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just... crazy.

Can turn crazier. Selecting carefully and with "1 million of nethack scrolls of genocide" we could probably wipe all extant life beings known heavier than 1 Kg, except fungus, macroalgae... and not much more. I hope that this article is wrong. If not, one million of species is a lot of biodiversity about to jump by the clift in the next ten or twenty years.

> I hope that this article is wrong

Time (and further research) will tell, but truth be told nothing in it surprises people who have watched specific local nonurban areas for decent spans of time. Ecologies are collapsing. It's visible and obvious; scientific reports describe and quantify what we already see and experience daily.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a theory. Anxiety is increasing because anxiety sells. The right leaning sites raise anxiety about immigrants. Left leaning sites raise anxiety that Trump is on his way to becoming a dictator. Environmental sites raise anxiety about species going extinct. Business sites raise anxiety about increase regulation and taxes. Meanwhile, humans are the best off we have ever been. This is one of the most peaceful…

Read "Factfulness" (one of Bill Gate's Top 5 books)... or Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker (or just watch the 15 min TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_is_the_world_getting... ) In most places, in most ways, the world is getting massively better than it even was 20 or 30 years ago...

Sure, if you conveniently exclude the environment.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#466
post #284

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

There was an absolutely phenomenal piece written recently: "How the news took over reality" [1] It goes into some degree of depth about why it is exactly that ever more people are increasingly feeling every pulse of every issue. And why it's not necessarily a great thing. Consider something. Today, by most metrics, is by far the most stable and safe time that we've ever lived in during humanity's existence. This seem…

Extreme weather conditions will be paradise, not the worst case scenario. When we reach 3 degree mark we are going straight up to 4 and then 5. Between 5 and 6 degrees the world is over in the most spectacular apocalyptic way you can imagine. How far away is this? I’m guessing your kids won’t want to have kids to spare them the suffering of 4 degree rise. At that point we will be fighting wars, billions will need to migrate north, nukes are on the table. The sad thing is, once we get there we have inevitable human extinction. Fresh water and food shortage will be a massive problem. A few or more billion people will die. How you get to extreme weather as the worst case scenario is beyond me. Look at how complex ecological systems are and how they affect one another. Acidification will bring about ocean life extinction and phytoplankton suffocation. Ice will melt, all of it, sea levels will rise, ocean currents totally screwed up, superstorms, flash flooding of biblical proportions will displace everyone in the coastal region. Migrations will trigger wars, food will become a luxury, methane will trap more heat, ozone will poof, enjoy your cancer.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#467

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

That's the not-so-funny element. Companies like Exxon were the first to hire independent researchers back in the 70s and helped pioneer climate research, with management being briefed on the as far back as 1977, and had developed its own models by 1982 that were widely circulated within the company.[0][1] That research was allowed to continue for nearly a decade, and Exxon researchers consulted on DOE research and re…

Pretty sure Hollywood with all the films about a few thousand people escaping an uninhabitable earth only to settle on a desolate rock is not helping at all. I’m betting people watching that stuff imagine themselves on the escape ship, not as the billions who don’t make it.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So many of us live in quiet desperation". This is so true it hurts.

It's actually a famous quote, i.e.: “The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.” - Henry David Thoreau, Walden

The context is also relevant here.

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.”

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah man, just eat the plants those animals are eating. You can't get away from the 10x energetic penalty.

But the animals strip out the fiber/carbs and over time convert it into efficient stores of protein/fat. I need ~140g protein a day to perform in the gym, I don't really want to get that from beans and be chew through 3,500 calories of carbohydrates to get to that protein.

If an olympic level athlete can reach peak success [0] while "chewing beans" - you can do that too.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2012/ju...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for clarifying, this is much easier to have a discussion about. I have two open questions, I won't try to make a counterclaim (that 2019 is worse), but I can point out where your position feels hollow to me and needs to be shored up. 1) If I accept what you're saying that for the average person life is better in 2019 than in 1950, that doesn't generalize to all humans. My assessment is that life has been pr…

> If your children are all living but you rarely speak to them and are cripplingly lonely, is that a better outcome than having 7 children, four of whom died, and you live in an intact healthy family unit? Yes, unless you have an extremely convincing argument that being lonely is worse than being dead.

Ok, I'll try: being lonely hurts and being dead doesn't.

What's your argument that it's better?

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