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Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

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Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#461

Interesting theory and thread: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/10697763353362923... “This isn’t about Chrome. This is about ElectronJS. Microsoft thinks EdgeHTML cannot get to drop-in feature-parity with Chromium to replace it in Electron apps, whose duplication is becoming a significant performance drain. They want to single-instance Electron with their own fork”

That makes sense. I might sound a little absurd at first, but recently I came across the documentation about submitting PWAs to the Microsoft Store [1], which completes the idea that Microsoft wants to embrace apps built with web technologies. After all, Electron apps are just the makeshift solution until we have all required APIs available within the browser(s).

[1]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/progressive-...

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#462
I would tend to frown upon shrinking competition but in this case Edge wasn't really a player. The markets were already shared by the Chromium engine and Firefox. Chromium has the ancestry back to WebKit and KHTML so, to my knowledge, Safari also isn't a direct competitor. So, we're looking at a duopoly which naturally happens when things get complex enough and smaller players are left behind by the sheer lack of resourcing.

Browsers always were hubs of a number of technologies because loading markup language documents over network and rendering them onto screen with some dynamic programming abilities covers a lot of ground. While we sort of agree on the rendering, scripting, and styling of HTML5 by now this has just intensified with features like WebGL of WebAssembly which reach out to completely new domains. So, it's near impossible to compete in the scene unless you're a big, established player.

A modern browser is a lot more complex than operating systems these days and probably 10x more complex than old operating systems from the era where it was still possible for a small group of people to write a competely usable kernel and desktop in a relatively short time. In effect, the browser has become the operating system and to think, that's probably the very reason it's much easier to be a Linux or Apple user these days. As long as you can run Firefox or Chrome, 90% of your problems are solved. Even Windows is, for most people, just a platform to run your browser on. Then you use things like Google Docs or the web-implementation of Office to launch Word or Excel to do your work. But you don't need Windows to do that, and with a Chromium based browser that Microsoft must fully support for their web services you can just use any Chrome/Chromium based implementation.

In this light I'm amazed Microsoft would be giving power to Chrome and Google. Microsoft was and still is an operator in the operating system and platform space. How are they going to stay at all relevant if they just officially reposition Windows as a host for Chromium build? Surely things aren't as black and white but that's effectively how it is, giving up control. Microsoft can't reinvent themselves as the new Google because that's an uphill battle. They'd need to create a new space where they can thrive because operating systems don't matter that much anymore and the lock-in cash-cow that is Windows+Outlook+Office is gradually munched away by the web technologies.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#463
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile Chrome is a bloated resource hog that, despite its resource usage, still scrolls like early Android phones. It's embarrassingly bad compared to Safari's buttery smooth scrolling.

Is it? I find a lot of these performance views are very subjective depending on multitasking, hardware, gpu, extensions, etc. Chrome has always served me well, and the built-in sync and consistency on mac + windows is what I like best. I would rather compete on features and general standards compliance, and then let people choose their own experience on top.

When everything else runs silky smooth, using vanilla Chrome on vanilla macOS feels like a giant slug. For something so fundamental, I find it baffling Google is unable to do it properly.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#464
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is leaving itself in the dirt. It's the new IE with slow, quirky, and unreliable features. They made some advancements in privacy, but so did Firefox without giving up on actual rendering and standards.

Meanwhile Chrome is a bloated resource hog that, despite its resource usage, still scrolls like early Android phones. It's embarrassingly bad compared to Safari's buttery smooth scrolling.

You're talking about Google's own product. Chromium is open source and all that "bloatedness" can be taken out. There are already many companies out there that use the Chromium rendering engine have already taken the unneeded bits out and customised the browser with their own features.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#465
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... and Firefox is just not cutting it." What are your objections to modern Firefox? Most of the criticism I've heard is that it's become too much like Chrome. I'm quite happy with it personally.

As someone who switched from Chrome to Firefox a few months ago my main issues are: * No spellcheck in form fields (without a plugin, and I hate plugins). * It feels slower. There's something about it that just doesn't feel as fast. Mostly things like opening windows etc. * There's some annoying defaults. * Dev tools aren't as good. * Updates aren't installed automatically. I mean, it's close to Chrome, which is good…

+1 for feeling slower and dev tools not being as good.

And Google sites are actually slower on Firefox, which I assume is not their fault but still doesn't work in their favor.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason developers prefer chrome over firefox is the devtools hands down. When firebug was amazing in the jquery era, we used firefox but now chrome's devtools is simple, fast and full featured to use. If firefox's devtools is as good as or better than chrome's maybe things can change!

What specifically do you find better in the Chrome devtools? I find Firefox devtools to be slightly nicer (but I don't really think either one has a massive edge over the other).

Websocket frame inspection in Firefox is not possible.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#467
post #373
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft only releases it on one OS. so if you happen to use a Mac or Linux you need another browser. Chrome and Firefox are the only viable options. Also Microsoft are victims of their own legacy, namely what they did with Internet Explorer. Changing the box model, not adopting standards, not fixing bugs, causing no end of headaches for people having to support IE and so on. Trust needs to be earned. Apple had the…

On Arch Linux, the browser would often crash after the system upgrade installed a newer version of Firefox. I read on their bug tracker that the upgrade prompt was a workaround for this (or at least one reason for it).

Was it due to the upgrade removing files the current version expected to be there?

Similar to how pacman (by default) removes all modules for the current running kernel, during an upgrade?

..which then breaks pretty much everything that relies on dynamic module loading, such as USB.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#468
post #446
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Arch Linux, the browser would often crash after the system upgrade installed a newer version of Firefox. I read on their bug tracker that the upgrade prompt was a workaround for this (or at least one reason for it).

They should just do it when you close the last window, if the OS is not shutting down.

On Linux, Firefox does not really have a choice. When the system rips out some vital libraries from under you because of an update, you can continue to use the old libraries in processes where they are already loaded. But new processes (i.e. new tabs) will not be able to load the old libraries.

It's similar to how, when you install a kernel update, new devices are not recognized anymore because the loadable kernel modules on disk are for the new kernel version, but you're still running the old kernel version. (There is the workaround employed e.g. by Debian where old kernel modules are left on the disk until they're cleaned up manually, but that opens the "manual cleanup" can of worms.)

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#469
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome didn’t come to dominate the desktop browser market by forcing users’ hand, but by offering a better experience. The few times I used Edge, nothing gave me a remotely better experience, I only noticed small annoyances and moved on.

> Chrome didn’t come to dominate the desktop browser market by forcing users’ hand, but by offering a better experience. Disagree strongly. Reasons: - Google has been extremely pushy with Chrome, including lying (IMO) about it on their front page, a place where no other ads have been shown ever (IIRC). - Their own products often don't work in other browsers. Might be an honest mistake but personally I really don't bu…

Chrome started becoming really popular when Firefox started becoming terrible around 10 years ago. Chrome was much faster and had better features. Firefox was bloated and slow and was pretty much resting on its laurels. These days it has inertia on its side, not that it's necessarily better anymore (I would argue Firefox is better now)

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#470

What other options do they have? Even on HN you hear "I use Egde to download Chrome". Many of you here don't test your own work in Edge. At the same time Microsoft is getting the heat that Windows 10 is unstable and the last major update shows that it is. Very urgently, I imagine, Microsoft is trying to change the perception of Windows 10 by doing everything they can to make it more stable. Changing the browser engin…

> YOU don't test your work in Egde and because

I already know the results of my tests. It won't work so I won't even bother testing. Because Edge doesn't support WebGL2.

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