Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#461

Post by uRreading2slow » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:01 AM UTC

qubex wrote: post #307

_bxg1 wrote: post #134

The article identifies some problems but totally misses their actual source. The problem isn't that we own less stuff, it's that the ownership is replaced by a dependency on a handful of corporations which we have no ability to influence or appeal to. The substitution of individual ownership for a communal one in which individuals retain a stake - a real community, or at a larger scale, a democracy - is not inherentl…

I might add that Silicon Valley et al has not simply cleverly redefined the meaning of ’sharing’ to cover their rental practices, but even the meaning of community has been totally warped out of shape. A community used to be a group of geographically proximate people whose collective survival depended on getting over their sometimes conflicting mutual interests and opinions in order to survive; now we use the term ’c…

> Unreason and anti-intellectualism abominate thought. Thinking implies disagreement; and disagreement implies nonconformity; and nonconformity implies heresy; and heresy implies disloyalty — so, obviously, thinking must be stopped. But shouting is not a substitute for thinking and reason is not the subversion but the salvation of freedom.

-- Adlai Stevenson, "A Call to Greatness" (1954)

> The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

-- George Bernard Shaw

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#462

Post by _iyig » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:04 AM UTC

I've been nervous about "owning" cloud-based media since Amazon deleted Kindle-purchased copies of 1984 [0].

Even today, media you "own" on services like Amazon can disappear when the cloud provider's license for this content expires. In my opinion, it is far better to purchase a Blu-Ray or CD copy of media titles you wish to retain, rip them to disk, and stream them to the device of your choice via Plex or Kodi.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am...

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#463

Post by Qwertie » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

jonwachob91 wrote: post #127

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

>For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long as possible. You just described a grocery store... They keep food and beverages…

Most people don't live particularly close to one.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#464

Post by Qwertie » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #33

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An essentially never discussed option is also that the fridge could be open source. Now when it breaks there is both motive and opportunity for third party repair companies to offer upgrades and fixes.

Most fridges are repairable modulo buying one with a complex motherboard. Even then they're still fixable just spendy to do so. Also most aren't complex enough that you couldn't just reverse engineer the Mobo easily. People do this for cars and computers.

They could be much cheaper to repair if they used standard parts so repair places didn't have to order in custom pieces that they only use about 1 per year because every fridge has it's own version.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#465

Post by Qwertie » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:12 AM UTC

aaron_m04 wrote: post #77

michaelt wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planned obsolescence should be illegal Is there a clear line between planned obsolescence and just making a cheap, low-quality product?

Yes. The distinguishing feature of planned obsolescence is that the customer doesn't know the real design lifespan of the product. Just require companies to declare that and the problem goes away. Looks like the EU already does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#Regulatio...

Thats kind of how warranty works only that usually the product lasts much longer than the warranty.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#466

Post by Qwertie » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

ryanworl wrote: post #97

ddevault wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

350,000 phones were being into landfills every day in 2010 . Fuck Apple's "thinnest phone ever", it's not worth the social cost. Dumb consumer vanity isn't the metric for optimization here.

Apple will recycle any Apple product for free just by handing it to them in any of their stores. An Apple phone ending up in a landfill is the consumer's fault. These recycled phones either end up as refurbished phones in other markets, or are taken apart by their special robots down to the individual pieces, which are then recycled themselves.

By recycling they likely mean burning the phone and getting about 10% of the valuable material back out of it.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#467

Post by Qwertie » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:16 AM UTC

gnopgnip wrote: post #260

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

Planned obsolescence is only an issue if there is a monopoly or significant collusion. The market incentives will sort this out.

The market can only sort it out if the lifespan of the product is made clear. If I buy a fridge today, I have no idea how long it will last. I can't see what standards the fridge was engineered to or what shortcuts they took and by the time it's known how long that model lasts it's already off the market and replaced with a new one.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#468

Post by Kalium » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #451

Kalium wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

I will share your opinion when we at some point have an immersive, livable virtual reality in which everyone has control over their own code. Until that, the current virtual "communities" seem like a poor substitute for actual communities, long-term. Yes, you get to meet like-minded people (or more precisely, one aspect of the personalities of some like-minded people), however what you can actually do with them is ti…

That some people prefer them, complete with all the incredibly glaring shortcomings you so correctly identify, might be considered by some to be eloquent commentary on the importance of choice.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#469

Post by Ibethewalrus » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

supernovae wrote: post #411

dingaling wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many people the commute is the only, or at least the majority, 'alone time' that they have. I step off the bus and my heart sinks as I re-enter the maelstrom of family life. The only other me-time I have is getting up at 05:30 to go for a run, which is magnitudes less pleasant than sitting on a bus. So, as you say, everyone's opinion of commuting time differs. For me it is a highlight of the day.

I don't want to put words into your mouth or say how you feel is wrong, but like I said, I felt the same for the longest time too. Now my morning run is me time - I run where I want to run, I wave to people, I smile, I pet the random dog that runs up to me, I smell the fresh air, I sense the warmth of summer, the coolness of fall and the crispness of winter. I feel the sun on my back, the wind on my face. I can liste…

5am, tie my shoes, go running up a hill, still dark, waving to strangers running too, everyone so happy! Best time of the day

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#470

Post by TimJYoung » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:21 AM UTC

jefe_ wrote: post #369

supernovae wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the value of "owning" something? I've owned VHS's, they're worthless I've owned houses - that I had to short sell I've owned DVD's - they're worthless I've owned Books - they're worthless What is the value of owning over just paying to enjoy access? I like spotify because i can sync music to my phone to play offline - but "owning" all this music is worthless... I had a HUGE cd collection growing up but they w…

Renting is giving up money for conditional access to an item. Owning is giving up liquidity for unconditional access to an item. In renting, when you are done with the item, you terminate, yielding access and recouping none of the money. In ownership, when you are done with the item, you sell, yielding access and recouping some money. High-end hobbyist equipment such as camera lenses and woodworking tools are great t…

I agree completely, but it also depends upon whether renting an item costs you a lot more over the life of the item (which is often dependent upon how well someone takes care of the item). For example, I think most people would agree that Aaron's Rent-to-Own is a sub-par method of purchasing furniture.