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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

europa.eu

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#461

Post by itsmenotyou »

wongarsu wrote: post #429
endorphone wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

>They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" The thing they were fined for was >[Google] has required manufacturers to pre-install the Google Search app and browser app (Chrome), as a condition for licensing Google's app store (the Play Store); How is the Play Store related to the Google Seach app or to Chrome? One is an app store, one is a seach bar and one is a browser. They have…

> How is the Play Store related to the Google Seach app or to Chrome?

- They're not, and the attempt to claim they are part of a mobile "suite" is the same sort of obfuscation Microsoft used when they argued a web browser (IE) was an essential part of a desktop OS. This ruling seems obvious to me.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#462

Post by brainwad »

delecti wrote: post #443
vivan wrote: post #2

Can anyone concisely explain what this fine is for, and also why the same wouldn't apply to Apple for iOS? It seems to be a rehash of the issue that Microsoft faced when it only gave you Internet Explorer on install. But iOS comes with only Safari on install, and forces you to use Apple's various apps - how is this any different?

Google is imposing terms on third party manufacturers. What third parties are selling devices with iOS?

Apple is simply imposing such onerous terms that no OEMs can sell iOS. But because (as a result of this anti-competetive behaviour) their market share in the OS market is low, it doesn't break the law.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#463

Post by skj »

cornholio wrote: post #389
skj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5b is about one of Google's quarterly earnings.

5b is about one quarter of profit for Google. It's practically peanuts, 0.4% of their market capitalization.

I actually meant one third, rather than 'one', but I realized the mistake after I was too late to edit.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#464

Post by dlp211 »

squarefoot wrote: post #242
vivan wrote: post #2

Can anyone concisely explain what this fine is for, and also why the same wouldn't apply to Apple for iOS? It seems to be a rehash of the issue that Microsoft faced when it only gave you Internet Explorer on install. But iOS comes with only Safari on install, and forces you to use Apple's various apps - how is this any different?

This one is much worse because although Microsoft tried to get complete control of the PC platform many years ago, they never managed to prevent people from installing other operating systems on their PCs. Had Microsoft the same power Google has now on mobile platforms, I would be writing this post using Windows 10 instead of Debian because Linux as well as *BSD and others would either not exist or could never proper…

I'm trying to understand your point. Google has nothing to do with Qualcomm keeping their hardware drivers proprietary. What am I missing?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#465

Post by [deleted] »

mkirklions wrote: post #439
endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

>I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason Thats funny you think Apple doesnt have bad practices... They are seemingly the worst when it comes to IP and giving customers and developers what they want.

[deleted]

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#466

Post by brainwad »

n1231231231234 wrote: post #435
Dayshine wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, the arrogance they show with that "It's easy to replace an app" video. Yes, it is, which is why the EU commission have a whole section on explicitly why "default install" is still anti-competitive.

it's certainly far from trivial to remove the search bar at the top of the home screen. i tried once, it broke android, and i had to reset the entire OS. but, tbf, the entire process did take <1 minute

Install another home screen, probably can be done in a minute. It is much easier than trying to modify anything at all about the iOS or Windows Phone home screens.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#467

Post by gergles »

chmod775 wrote: post #420
endorphone wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

> They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience". They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. Fire OS and my personal phone which is running a Google-free version of LineageOS would like to have a word. > And if we just go around clubbing everything coarsely, why does my BMW have a BMW entertainment system? BMW doesn't have a dominant market position it could abuse. Nei…

> Fire OS and my personal phone which is running a Google-free version of LineageOS would like to have a word.

Hilariously, you just made the parent's point for them - you yourself said you aren't running Android but Fire OS or LineageOS. Android, the product, comes with Chrome, Google Search, and the Google Play Store. If you want Android, you have to take all of Android. If you want to run something else, go for it, but then it isn't Android.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#468

Post by brainwad »

mtgx wrote: post #342
Dayshine wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, the arrogance they show with that "It's easy to replace an app" video. Yes, it is, which is why the EU commission have a whole section on explicitly why "default install" is still anti-competitive.

> "It's easy to replace an app" Also, I don't think all Google apps can be uninstalled. Either way, I've certainly seen apps from other OEM partners that can be removed. That should outright be illegal within the EU. All apps that aren't strictly necessary for the functioning of the case operating system should be uninstallable.

A browser has to be installed on Android so that embedded web views work properly. Similar to how IE has to be installed on Windows.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#469

Post by _pghu »

anilakar wrote: post #332
endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

Is this yet another case of trying to apply an American interpretation to a European law? I thought we all had a similar discussion when GDPR came into effect.

Hopefully it isn't yet another case of smug Europeans preening and going "Oh, you stupid Americans, our regulators are different and would never levy gigantic fines. Instead, they come give you a hug and have a cup of tea and politely ask you to please stop, and they would never ever in a billion years abuse this extremely wide-ranging law for political ends!"

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#470

Post by whateveruser »

chii wrote: post #306
appleflaxen wrote: post #256

there is a lot of criticism of the EC by the HN community, but I am extremely happy to have some push-back against the oligopoly of Apple, Google, etc. let's do apple, facebook, and amazon next. now if we could only convince comcast to provide services to the EU.... having a small set of companies controlling everything harms all consumers.

> I am extremely happy to have some push-back against the oligopoly of Apple, Google, etc....let's do apple, facebook, and amazon next. better yet, force companies to open up their walled gardens. I want phones to be more like PCs, where the device is in full control by the owner. I want the app store be available to be changed without consequence, and/or have multiple competing stores.

I believe what you meant to say is the owner is in full control of the device, on PCs.
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