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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#461

Post by hollerith »

wilsonnb wrote: post #447
delbel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its wrong because we don't want to one day wake up with autonomous drones flying over our head that can kill us. Upload a video to youtube with the wrong ideaology or keyword that triggered some AI to flag your account? Get ready to be fragged as soon as you step outside. I'd like to opt out please

Regardless of whether Google works with the US military on this, or if another company works with the US military on this, or if NO outside company works with the US military on this, or even if the US military doesn't work on it at all, autonomous AI powered weapons are happening anyways. We can't put them back in the box. The prosperity that technology brings us comes with a cost. Weaponizing technology will always…

The US's developing them -- and especially the US's being the first to develop them -- makes it at least slightly more likely that Russia and China will develop them.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#462

Post by Sharlin »

YCode wrote: post #329
Sharlin wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You either stay ahead or lose the war before it's ever begun. We must be able to do better than that. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Yes and no. It's true, we ought to find ways to work together that rely on concepts like mutually assured stability instead of MAD. And there's evidence of altruism's superiority even on a biological level. There are some species of bacteria that when they run out of food will form a protective spore to wait for better times or form a stalk to move to a new location to find food. Those whose bodies form the base of t…

State monopoly for violence is itself a solution to a coordination problem.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#464

Post by kaonashi »

amaccuish wrote: post #463

People love to talk about Huawei's links to the People's Liberation Army, but when Google starts working with the US military, it's somehow different. Hmm...

China doesn’t have the same (recent) history of ‘military adventurism’.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#465

Post by candiodari »

discordance wrote: post #166
strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

I don't think WW2 and the "wars" of the last 20 years are a fair comparison. The recent wars are highly controversial and this is clearly recognised and protested by people working in SV.

The outcome of wars determines how protests are seen. Do you think there were no large protests against attacking the Nazis in WWII ? Anti-war people are anti-war. They have as little concept of just wars versus unjust wars as the people they accuse of warmongery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_World_War_II

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrhjmT4Zg5I

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#466

Post by manigandham »

barrkel wrote: post #319
Regardsyjc wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I believe the only reason American civilians like us have been able to enjoy peace is because we dropped a ton of bombs to blast tiny countries out of the sky and we also have a history of fighting wars not to win, but not to lose. If Americans are willing to sacrifice their people and resources for a tiny country in the middle of nowhere, imagine what they would do to you if you attacked them or their inter…

> I believe the only reason American civilians like us have been able to enjoy peace is because we dropped a ton of bombs to blast tiny countries out of the sky This is completely ludicrous. There is no military threat to the US beyond nukes. Nuclear weapons have obsoleted wars between great powers. Tiny countries are zero threat to the USA. They cannot invade; they can do almost nothing. At best, they can kill a few…

You think war between major powers is obsolete? That's naive at best and completely ignores how volatile the world is. Tiny countries do not exist in a vacuum, there are layers of resources and allies and other political ties that can move entire regions into conflict. Also yes, small countries are developing nukes themselves and I fail to see why you just brush over that threat? Are nukes not real or somehow guaranteed to never be used?

AI, which is the topic here, changes that dynamic completely, and with drones and cyber warfare there is no need for world-ending firepower when you can just shutdown leadership and modern society instead.

And yes, I want the country that I'm a citizen of to stay both free, powerful and wealthy. The point is that we are on a path to building wartime capabilities that will put one country far ahead of everyone else, and I absolute want that to be my country. I would think you would want that for yours as well.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#467

Post by Sharlin »

manigandham wrote: post #459
Sharlin wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that what you posed is a false dilemma: we must be able to solve our coordination problems or face extinction.

What is the false about that dilemma? That's exactly the situation. We may overcome it, but it's certainly possible and likely even probable that we'll just wipe ourselves out.

Bad phrasing on my part. I meant that the alternatives you presented—escalate an endless arms race or perish—cannot be the only ones. The point Meditations on Moloch ultimately makes is that we must be able to do better than the eternal race to the bottom that Moloch represents.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#468

Post by privacypoller »

mattnewton wrote: post #413
3131s wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fact, not a feeling. How many of the roughly 1 million people dead in the last 15 years of the "War of Terror" ever directly attacked the US or US citizens?

That’s the problem with preemptive strikes against individuals who aren’t part of a nation that declared war against you.. who’s t say they wouldn’t have attacked you? The metrics are inpossible, and the government is free to redefine people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time as probably guilty anyways.

Killing someone who, if left alive, might kill you is arguably a worst justification than those used by actual terrorists. It throws away the very pretext of correcting a wrong, perceived or otherwise.

As software developers we should see the problem here with "premature optimization". It's an incredibly inefficient use of resources with limited success in addressing unplanned situations. Sounds a lot like the war in terror.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#469

Post by manigandham »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #340
barrkel wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe the only reason American civilians like us have been able to enjoy peace is because we dropped a ton of bombs to blast tiny countries out of the sky This is completely ludicrous. There is no military threat to the US beyond nukes. Nuclear weapons have obsoleted wars between great powers. Tiny countries are zero threat to the USA. They cannot invade; they can do almost nothing. At best, they can kill a few…

Thank you for putting this into words. It's sad to see how effective the US propaganda efforts have been in convincing otherwise intelligent people that the military is "defending our freedom". I'd love to see how many millions (billions?) the federal government has pumped into this myth. Hell, the entire America's Army initiative was literally a recruitment tool for kids who played video games. It's depressing to th…

It's beyond naive to think that conflict doesn't exist or that tiny fluctuations cant kick-start global warfare. It is very easy to take it for granted when you have never experienced conflict yourself. Perhaps try talking to the families of those who paid in blood to give you the freedom to post these thoughts, and see exactly how many places like the US actually exist in the world.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#470

Post by Veelox »

3131s wrote: post #152
ipsin wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this queasy feeling that the U.S. is killing people who aren't actually taking up arms against it. If doing so shaves a few percent off the error rate that's saving innocent lives, but it's also becoming an essential part of a process that kills innocent people? I'd prefer standing against the slaughter.

It is fact, not a feeling. How many of the roughly 1 million people dead in the last 15 years of the "War of Terror" ever directly attacked the US or US citizens?

1 million dead in 15 years seems a lot higher than any other number I have seen. Do you have a citation for this?
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