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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#461

Post by mmt »

toasterlovin wrote: post #431
jonny_eh wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And improve the weather.

Vancouver weather is amazing. I know that’s hard for Californians to believe, but it’s true.

You beat me to that comment! I grew up in California (and still live here), and I believe it because I've seen it in almost every season. To be fair, I do prefer things a bit cooler than most, but not necessarily "real" freezing winter. Of course, for those who want snow, the skiing mountains are closer than they are here in the Bay Area.

Unfortunately, this is offset by very high housing prices relative to salaries, inadequate or absent freeways, and significantly higher fuel prices, making even a "drive 'til you qualify" strategy for housing unattractive.

Is there adequate apartment stock near public transit? That could make it attractive enough for workers of a certain age, but, at least in the US, suburbs are remarkably popular for raising kids.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#462

Post by __erik »

wk_end wrote: post #175
ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

Where in Canada did you live and gone to school? I live in the US now, and don't disagree that Americans as a people are more...well, I like the word 'ambitious'. But I think your characterization of Canada is overly harsh: in Toronto and Montreal I know (and love) misfits just as individual, wild, and free as anyone I met during my years in Brooklyn.

Also Canadian (Vancouver / Victoria), spend a lot of time in SF. This has also been my experience but I'm wondering if its just a big city thing in CAD.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#463

Post by adverbly »

whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

I see trouble with pursuing non-american engineers. They might move south anyways later if the opportunity comes up because the salary difference is still huge.

Lucrative perks sticks because of tax breaks like you mentioned.

I would be going all-out on #3. Having local businesses has benefits beyond just avoiding brain drain as well.

This is why it blows my mind at how little funding there is for early stage companies in Canada. I personally tried twice now already, as have several friends, and we didn't get anywhere because local investors here want you to already have a finished product with a validated business model and 10k/month in revenue. I'm sorry but the only way you stop a promising new grad from turning down a huge salary is by giving them the chance to work on their passion.

Expecting them to already have a 10k/mo business is just a big F-you. Might as well go to the states where I can at least make enough money to take some time off. And heck, while I'm there someone might even fund my idea anyways.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#464

Post by flamtap »

bacongobbler wrote: post #18

US salaries are much higher, the tech industry is booming in the states, and it's very simple to apply for a visa or start a consulting company to work remotely from home. If you're a student graduating out of a Canadian college/university and are looking for ways to advance your career (while making a lot more money on the side), what's not to love about moving or working remote?

I did exactly this, and have been working remotely for a Californian company as of two months ago. All I had to do was open a sole proprietorship (a trivial errand) and a USD bank account (technically optional), and report in via email on my first day.

As a self-employed contractor, my costs are lower (working from home), I get myriad tax breaks, and my salary is not even comparable to what I could expect locally, even with having to pay for my own health and dental. I can't see myself ever going back to working locally. Hell, I have been thinking about moving into the mountains recently, just for the scenery.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#465

Post by eanzenberg »

trhway wrote: post #236
tanilama wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Silicon Valley, most likely you are not going to afford a house anyway.. .

Sunnyvale (current ground zero of Apple) median is close to 2M - that is only 5x of $400K which a lot of FANG and other engineers pull yearly (and that is the main reason for current SV home prices as, during such low mortgage rates, the market is naturally self-adjusting to 5-6x of prevalent salaries. In 2008 those houses were $700-800K+ - the 5-6x of those $120K-150K salaries back then).

What percentage of FANG employees pull 400k yearly? The ones i know who work there make half that.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#467

Post by adverbly »

jedberg wrote: post #268
whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

> Aggressively encourage/fund/facilitate startups. They tried that a few times. I know because I was an advisor to one of the biggest incubators in Canada. The government even gives cash grants to startups. But as soon as the company gets big, they either 1) open an engineering office in the Bay Area or 2) Sell, and the move to the Bay Area because they were just acquired by a Bay Area company who is making them move…

> They tried that a few times. I know because I was an advisor to one of the biggest incubators in Canada. The government even gives cash grants to startups.

This is news to me. I tried have tried talking to an incubator several times and every time they tell me to come back when I have $10k/mo in revenue. Sorry but I have a full time job and I can't grow a business to 10k/mo without some help. Seems to me like they didn't try very hard.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#468

Post by bonestamp2 »

ryanobjc wrote: post #155
_xzxj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

So true. I'll give you a poignant example... I was a Canadian exchange student at a California University. I was walking from one class to another when I noticed somebody on a skateboard coming my way on the path.

Just as he was passing I realize it was one of my professors. That surprised me and I turned my head as he went by to take it in. But what surprised me more was that I was the only person who gave a shit that a 50-year-old guy in dress pants and a sweater just road past on a skateboard. That's when I first realized people were much more open-minded.

It took me about 10 years after University to move back to California and I can't imagine I'll ever move away.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#469

Post by bonestamp2 »

bgirard wrote: post #303
ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

That's because Canada is socially liberal and financially conservative.

Socially liberal in some ways, but not in everything. 4 states decriminalized and/or legalized marijuana before any Canadian provinces. 2 of them did it years before Canada was even planning to do it. That is very telling of the two cultures.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#470

Post by timr »

pm90 wrote: post #284
trhway wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm yet to see a high-rise development resulting in cheaper housing, at least in US. No that i'm against it - i like it, when it is done right, for different reasons though. The housing prices are rising across the globe - one has to put somewhere all this money sloshing around. So, even to just stabilize the prices, one has to build faster than the money are printed - like Alice in Wonderland where you have to run f…

> i'm yet to see a high-rise development resulting in cheaper housing, at least in US. No that i'm against it - i like it, when it is done right, for different reasons though. It definitely won't be one or 2 developments; there has to be a systematic increase in the housing stock. Which is why the latest California plan (which was shot down in committee) to increase the density around mass transit by default was so a…

Right. Only by building up will San Francisco finally achieve New York City's cheap rents.
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