WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#461

Post by makomk » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:12 PM UTC

etcet wrote: post #237

Clanan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's ironic is that Trump didn't use CA to win the election. CA was used a bit in the primaries but after that the campaign only solicited a bid as a hedge in case the RNC didn't share its data. CA wasn't used for the general election. On the other hand, the Obama campaign used sneaky Terms and Conditions to suck up friend lists and create a national social graph for the sole purpose of winning the General Election…

Where did you get that information? Channel4 is reporting that Mercer donated to the Trump campaign on the condition that he would take on Steve Bannon and hire CA. Steven Bannon joined the Trump campaign in August 2016, after Trump won the primaries in May.

They did hire CA in order to get Mercer's support and donations - they just didn't actually use their data once Trump had access to the more accurate (and more old-fashioned) central RNC database, and apparently never used the psychographic data at the heart of the controversy at all. See e.g. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-campaign-phased-out-use-o...

Like, I know the news media have spun the fact that one of Trump's big, important donors made them hire CA as proof they relied on CA to win the election, but really it should be the opposite - it should call into question whether their hiring was justified by what they offered the campaign.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#462

Post by swebs » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:14 PM UTC

propman wrote: post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

The general public and mainstream media do not really care about big tech companies harvesting personal data and using it for marketing. Every now and then you'd see someone bringing it up in an article of Ars or Popular Science, but they never gained much traction.

The difference is now there is an example of it helping Trump. And if you can find any story that puts Trump in a bad light, it's almost guaranteed that it will hit the front page of HuffingtonPost/WashingtonPost/NYTimes/Salon/etc.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#463

Post by jfoster » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:16 PM UTC

justboxing wrote: post #38

propman wrote: post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

> We've knows Facebook tracks everything Not disputing this, but when you say 'we' I think you mean the The rest 95% either don't know, or could care less even if they know. I've told my non-techie fam and friends about data harvesting, privacy, and how facebook tracks everything, only to be ignored or outright ridiculed ("Oh you techies are so paranoid"). Many of my friends in India (where I was raised) and elsewher…

It's very simple. No one will care unless it has a tangible effect on their lives. For that reason, if it does have a tangible effect on peoples' lives, Facebook is doing it wrong.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#464

Post by hycaria » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:16 PM UTC

samsord wrote: post #435

hycaria wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't put that much data out, but I don't mind being profiled. I like being suggested music that I'm susceptible to like based on other people. I think it's fine if one can infer out of my lifestyle that I would be interested in x or warn for risks of y. What is wrong with it ? I'm probably no statistical anomaly, I don't mind being part of some artificial cluster somewhere, helping having a more accurate portrayal…

This may be okay for you individually. But Facebook will treat someone with bipolar or serious impulse control issues just the same way... Assuming some level of accuracy, an algorithm could predict when someone is having a manic episode, susceptible. Its predatory and dangerous. The vast majority of people are not aware of how to protect themselves from out-of-hand tech giants and their customers. Getting ahead is b…

>But Facebook will treat someone with bipolar or serious impulse control issues just the same way... Assuming some level of accuracy, an algorithm could predict when someone is having a manic episode, susceptible. Its predatory and dangerous.

And what would they do out of that ? People with poor mental health don't need facebook to be triggered, it seems even less harmful because it's through an interface and not a direct human interaction.

>use rational means to work out for yourself what products are best for you and your budget, or on the other hand what political affiliations actualy represent your interests.

I don't buy stuff mostly, it's an easy solution. And no political affiliations represent the rare interest I have that I think would undoubtedly be good.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#465

Post by hycaria » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:17 PM UTC

Tarks wrote: post #434

hycaria wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't put that much data out, but I don't mind being profiled. I like being suggested music that I'm susceptible to like based on other people. I think it's fine if one can infer out of my lifestyle that I would be interested in x or warn for risks of y. What is wrong with it ? I'm probably no statistical anomaly, I don't mind being part of some artificial cluster somewhere, helping having a more accurate portrayal…

> I am not interesting enough that anyone will come for me specifically anyways. No single raindrop believes it's responsible for the storm. They don't care about you specifically, if you can profile people accurately they have a much easier time of adjusting perspectives for your own aims. You've likely already seen the results of this with the latest American election. It's gone far beyond getting you to buy more m…

And ? Did the world crash, the USA's GDP sink, did people starve and die by thousands ? No, nothing happened.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#466

Post by thirdsun » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:25 PM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #412

thirdsun wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I was not aware that Facebook invited anyone to take out that data merely asking them to delete it shortly after. That's the part that's new and offending to me. Meanwhile I tolerate political campaigns using targetted advertising. I just wish people were showing more competence when it comes to media consumption and the ability to distinguish between truthful reporting and obvious lies. The media illite…

Is media literacy something that can solve this though? A society can educate its citizens (and should do so), but a large group of people simply can't reach the level of critical thinking necessary to fully grasp the nudging and political weaselling they are submitted to.

> but a large group of people simply can't reach the level of critical thinking necessary to fully grasp the nudging and political weaselling they are submitted to.

Isn't that exactly the kind of problem that education can solve? Of course that's a decade long process which doesn't happen over night.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#467

Post by lazyjones » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:26 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #12

gnicholas wrote: post #11

If we use Twitter to announce that people should #deletefacebook, what social network do we use in the event that it becomes necessary to #deletetwitter?

you ssh into your own trusted openbsd system, run bitchx and connect to efnet, just like the good lord intended back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth. i am only partially sarcastic here.

IRC, so awesome, until local server admins began k-lining people for disagreeing with them.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#468

Post by vog » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:27 PM UTC

coloredtopbar wrote: post #440

justboxing wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the cameras in retail are expected to only be used for review, when some event occurs. No one expects it to be used for data mining and behavioral analysis purposes. Right. Except that this is also not true. Source: "A crashed advertisement reveals the code of the facial recognition system used by a pizza shop in Oslo..." => https://twitter.com/gamblelee/status/862307447276544000?lang...

The word "reveals" is used because it is not expected by the average person. Otherwise it would be something like "confirms expectation".

No, the word "reveals" is used because the code is revealed. Well, it's more a "log file" than "code", but that's detail. The point is that the "code" (log file) is usually hidden from average people.

Also, the word "reveals" is used to make the headline more sensational, just like any other headline. It doesn't tell you anything about the average person.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#469

Post by intended » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC

apotheothesomai wrote: post #63

iliketosleep wrote: post #31

It's quite ironic that this is the man who sold WhatsApp and its enormous userbase to facebook, creating a total lock in to the facebook ecosystem for many who do not even use facebook. He would have known what kind of a company facebook is, so I don't understand the contradiction between selling Whatsapp to them and now caring about these issues. Anyway, I am still glad he's getting behind the #deletefacebook moveme…

Jan's commitment to privacy motivated WhatsApp. Jan and Acton always have believed in it strongly. That said, if your company has 50 people, and FB offers nearly $20B. How exactly do you tell those people that you refused an acquisition that huge, because you personally feel that FB is bad. Could you deprive an engineer who has worked his ass off for 4 years >$100M? Anyway, I was contracting for WhatsApp, when the ac…

Craigslist did it.

It is very possible to turn down money and avoid becoming a corporate animal.

Does it happen? Yes.

Does it happen very frequently? No.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#470

Post by lazyjones » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:33 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #99

walrus01 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you ssh into your own trusted openbsd system, run bitchx and connect to efnet, just like the good lord intended back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth. i am only partially sarcastic here.

I do miss the mad west of the IRC/NNTP days. I also miss multiple search engines. Yahoo/Lycos/Hotbot/Dogpile/AltaVista all give you different results and you could have fun searching around. The current Internet is a monoculture

NNTP, so awesome until 95% of its resources were consumed by its abuse as a file sharing platform for (naughty to nasty) images and pirated software and until power-hungry local group moderators started abusive banning/deleting practices against people who disagreed with their opinions on politics etc.

People want their own fluffy & safe social bubbles, not open, distributed networks.