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Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

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Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#461

Post by mnglkhn2 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #411
genon wrote: post #324

Absolutely correct. He is also effectively saying that since he can and will remove sites he personally doesn't like, that he personally approves of every other site using Cloudflare. The excuse he uses for terminating TDS is an absolute crock; if TDS genuinely did falsely and sincerely claim that Cloudflare supports them, then Prince could and should have simply asked them to remove that claim. It's an outrage that…

False equivalence. Gay people don't choose to be gay, and gay people aren't harming others. A business can refuse to serve skateboarders, shirtless people, and other people who are being a nuisance; and it can certainly refuse to serve people who bring violence wherever they go.

You seem to contradict the recent view in the LGBTQ. community that gender is a social construct and that you can choose which gender feels right for you!

Your implication that being gay has to do with biology and hence it has a hereditary component is at odds with what we are currently hearing from everywhere.

Which view is it the valid one?

To me these are exclusive so in the community should choose just one discourse.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#462

Post by matt4077 »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #415

They are a business and they have the right to do this. 100% However they can no longer say they are "content-neutral". Also because they have taken an active step to censor they face the fact that in the future they could be sued for NOT censoring other content as there is now precedent created by this action. If you never censor then you have a clam of safe harbor. Emotionally the CEO is correct. From business poin…

That doesn't even begin to make sense... Or at least you're 20 years too late with that argument:

"The act was passed in part in reaction to the 1995 decision in Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Services Co.,[3] which suggested that service providers who assumed an editorial role with regard to customer content, thus became publishers, and legally responsible for libel and other torts committed by customers. This act was passed to specifically enhance service providers' ability to delete or otherwise monitor content without themselves becoming publishers"

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230_of_the_Communicati...

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#463

Post by Stratoscope »

vaishaksuresh wrote: post #434
genon wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get what I'm saying - comparing two well-known instances from different parts of the political spectrum where businesses try and refuse custom for ideological reasons - why are you pretending I'm comparing gay people to neo-Nazis?

Because you choose to be a neo nazi, you don’t choose to be gay. I’m not talking about denying service. I’m saying one of them did not choose to be what they are.

No one is comparing gay people with neo-nazis or saying there is some equivalence, they were just two very different examples to illustrate a point. In fact, what makes it such a good illustration is how different they are from each other.

Let me change it to an example more dear to my own heart:

> Don't wanna hire old programmers or host pro-Nazi sites? Don't start a business serving the public then.

I certainly didn't choose to be an old programmer! It seems to have just happened, maybe by some law of nature. But I'm not offended by being mentioned in the same sentence with pro-Nazi sites. It's pretty obvious that no comparison is being made between the two.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#464

Post by zaroth »

njarboe wrote: post #408
PeanutCurry wrote: post #341

I'm obviously being a bit facetious when I say this, but are there really few things worse than nazis? I'm not expert on the subject of neo-nazis or the nazi movement, so maybe this seems more complex because of my position of ignorance. But none of the statistics seem to imply that nazis are more than simply intellectually repulsive and socially disgusting. That's not to say that nazi affiliated groups never commit…

Scott Alexander has a good article relating to this issue and Trump[1]. [1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wo...

That was surpringly entertaining, and perhaps even more relevant today than when it was written 9 months ago.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#465

Post by mehwoot »

jacquesm wrote: post #428
mehwoot wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge, gaping difference between those two things Is there? If you need companies to effectively publish on the internet, then those companies refusing to work with you means you can't publish. Do you consider that censorship?

> Is there? I'm kind of surprised that would need re-iterating but yes, there is. > If you need companies to effectively publish on the internet, then those companies refusing to work with you means you can't publish. No, you can go buy a printer and write your little screed in notepad and print it out, then distribute your copies. Who every equated the internet with all venues of publishing? > Do you consider that c…

Censorship is when the state

I, and most other people, disagree with this definition.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable... Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#466

Post by matt4077 »

gritzko wrote: post #460
tuna-piano wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bizarre. He tries to have it both ways. He says "no one should have that power", but then says he did it literally earlier that day. He says CloudFlare isn't changing their "content-neutral" policy... but clearly they did change that policy. I have many reasons to oppose nazis, including incredibly personal ones. That said, I think crossing this content line for an infrastructure company is a big deal, and I…

First they came for the Nazis, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Nazi.

...and then everything was fine–because "slippery slope" isn't actually an argument.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#467

Post by reitanqild »

PeanutCurry wrote: post #341

I'm obviously being a bit facetious when I say this, but are there really few things worse than nazis? I'm not expert on the subject of neo-nazis or the nazi movement, so maybe this seems more complex because of my position of ignorance. But none of the statistics seem to imply that nazis are more than simply intellectually repulsive and socially disgusting. That's not to say that nazi affiliated groups never commit…

I'm not expert on the subject of neo-nazis or the nazi movement, so maybe this seems more complex because of my position of ignorance. But none of the statistics seem to imply that nazis are more than simply intellectually repulsive and socially disgusting.

Eh. The statistics about nazism is clear: they have killed a few million people over the last 100 years.

That is more than about everyone else except maybe the various communist regimes who together are in the tens of millions range IIRC.

Almost anyone that argues Hitler was agreat guy and nazism is great and should be ruling today are also arguing for continuing to kill people.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#468

Post by ransom1538 »

This is how life is for people in Porn.

Let's say you host porn. Let's also assume you wish to charge for porn. Many banks, credit card merchants, etc DO NOT wish to deal with your company at all. They wont take your transfers nor business. There are merchants that are comfortable taking payments from you (CCBill) but they cost much more since they have the expertise to deal with these types of chargebacks etc. I am not sure how I see this is different. If you create a hate website - you might get dropped from SendGrid. Tough. That is how it works.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#469

Post by woofyman »

genon wrote: post #402
vaishaksuresh wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Don't wanna sell cakes to gay people or host pro-Nazi sites? Don't start a business serving the public then. I get what you’re saying and agree with you, but please don’t compare gay people and neo-nazi. They’re not same or even similar.

If you get what I'm saying - comparing two well-known instances from different parts of the political spectrum where businesses try and refuse custom for ideological reasons - why are you pretending I'm comparing gay people to neo-Nazis?

The difference is the people of Colorado through their elected representatives included gays in an anti-discrimination law. Here in Georgia, the bakers would get an medal from the legislature.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#470

Post by nyxtom »

r721 wrote: post #4

>“This was my decision. This is not Cloudflare’s general policy now, going forward,” Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince told Gizmodo. “I think we have to have a conversation over what part of the infrastructure stack is right to police content.” (from internal email) >Let me be clear: this was an arbitrary decision. It was different than what I’d talked talked with our senior team about yesterday. I woke up this morning i…

People seem to be missing the entire substance of what he's getting at. That's why he mentions "no one should have that power". He even follows up about this in the blog.

> Without a clear framework as a guide for content regulation, a small number of companies will largely determine what can and cannot be online.

People seem to be saying, "you can't have it both ways". I think the point is that without actually executing the point being made, it's just a theoretical idea, the fact that he did it in this way only proves the point of why we need a better framework.

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