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I'm not a Woman in Tech

communequation.wordpress.com

461–470 of 621 posts

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the field of discrimination, women and minorities are statistically more experienced; so on the whole you'd expect them to hold more informed opinions than white men. Maybe so, but I think it would be a mistake to understate the extent to which white men can experience discrimination. That is, there are far more parameters on which one can discriminate than just gender and ethnicity. For example, you could be a wh…

Yes, you could in theory be disciminated against for your shortness, or fatness, or mirth, or fashion sense, opinion, or eyebrow girth. However... Have you ever been held captive & forced into labour on the basis of your atheism? Has your father ever been told you deserved no democratic vote because of your weight? Have you ever told you weren't allowed to marry someone else because of your height? Have you ever been…

I'm not "comparing" anything. Simply pointing out that non-white / non-male individuals don't have a monopoly on experiencing discrimination. Nothing you said above contradicts that in any way. I'm not saying that certain group don't experience more or even more severe discrimination. But this narrative that seems so prevalent today, the whole "you can't know anything about discrimination if you're a white male, and by the way, you white males are the root of all evil" is not supported.

And FWIW, I did not down-vote you. In fact, have a corrective up-vote on me.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#462
YES!! 100% agree. I hate these labels and after having moved to the US it is really difficult to stand against them. The environment is so pressing! I am meeting with my HR to talk about this, because we are having a meeting with one of our bosses and women in the org. I find it super discriminating. This article will help me argue my point!

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, why take things like that personally? Why liken it to a ghetto ? Is your pride really so hurt that someone wanted to help you out around the office that you refuse to believe that you could have learned anything useful from it? You can't even come out of it with another friend, a future business contact, an interpersonal skill, deeper knowledge of a workplace tool? It's great if some people don't think they…

Because it implies an opinion of weakness to the party offering said "help". Many people do not need or want help and forcing it on them only serves to enforce hidden power dynamics on behalf of the requestor. What I really don't understand is how we men can act so innocent about all this. "Oh, I was just asking a question," "I didn't force her to do anything," "she was free to decline," "what, how could you not want…

You are super angry at something. Maybe that something is perfectly valid but it does not seem a reasonable reaction to the situation at hand.

You sound like the kind of person I would avoid interacting with at all costs because anything could result in non productive conflict. Have you considered people might be reacting to your hostility not your gender?

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, why take things like that personally? Why liken it to a ghetto ? Is your pride really so hurt that someone wanted to help you out around the office that you refuse to believe that you could have learned anything useful from it? You can't even come out of it with another friend, a future business contact, an interpersonal skill, deeper knowledge of a workplace tool? It's great if some people don't think they…

Because it implies an opinion of weakness to the party offering said "help". Many people do not need or want help and forcing it on them only serves to enforce hidden power dynamics on behalf of the requestor. What I really don't understand is how we men can act so innocent about all this. "Oh, I was just asking a question," "I didn't force her to do anything," "she was free to decline," "what, how could you not want…

So am I supposed to feel equally condescended to by the man in upper management who calls me "sweetie" and the woman who has organized some person to show me around the office and introduce me to people? Okay.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#466
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason BLM would be offensive and cause those reactions is if this statement is offensive to your being -- black people having equal rights as white people. Yes, that's the obvious response. There is also the other responses: that you can live with white people without fear, resentment, anger, disgust, or despair. Like being able to go onto a bus and not have judgements made on you that you're dangerous or…

I don't think movements and communities are mutually exclusive, which you seem to imply (or i'm still misunderstanding). In fact, I would say the movements are often responsible for invigorating and restoring/refurbishing a community. The Lutherans, despite forking from Catholicism, actually also improved Catholicism. The civil rights movement made America better, but it was inherently adversarial because at some poi…

Movements and communities are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but there are often movements which polarizes or radicalizes. Because we lost our sense of community (due to modernism), movements today generally do not try to build communities.

The split between Lutherans and Catholicism is not a good example of community building. That is an example of exchanges of ideologies and dogma, not really about the exchanges of people and community. A slightly better example might be when my friend brought a group of Thai Theraveda Buddhist monks to visit a colony of Trappist monks outside of Atlanta. They got into the sanctuary and were amazed by the acoustics. The Buddhist monks tried out some chants and then Trappist monks performed some of their own chants. They could do that despite differences in philosophy because there was a sense of ultimately belonging to the greatest whole. It is also not a good example because monks are not ordinary people.

Have you read any of the philosophies about modernism? I think you're conflating religions with the traditional modes. Philosopher Ken Wilbur has some great stuff to say about this. One of the characteristics of traditional, pre-modern communities has to do with this idea of the Great Chain of Being. The name is specific to Western ideas, but the generalization of the "Great Chain of Being" covers a lot of ground, even into Eastern philosophies as well as indigenous, tribal cultures.

It is this knowing that you are part of a greater whole (and that greater whole is part of an even larger greater whole, and that greater whole is a part of a larger greater whole). Religions used to provide that sense of knowing where you belong -- but so did tribal cultures without organized religions. This sense of belonging used to be normative and now it is not. Stable, long-term jobs and unions were imperfect substitutes for what modernism broke. Our hyper-connectedness has exacerbated that separation.

On Facebook, for example, people seek out other like-minded people, not to connect (like you were saying in your homeless example), but more to reinforce psychological ego (the beliefs, narratives, and identities a person develops for a false sense of self). Connection requires opening up, of allowing the social masks to be vulnerable, of mutual impact and sharing. That generally does not happen on Facebook (instagram/snapchat/etc).

> So, you ask whether you can maintain loving kindness in the face of threat/danger/aggression? I'm saying there is no such thing that exists on a daily basis. I don't fear any homeless person unless they approach me in a way that says they mean harm to me personally.

Like you, I generally don't fear the homeless. When I lived in Seattle, there were many that lived out in the neighborhood I lived at, more easily found there than in Phoenix. (You have to hide from the sun in Phoenix).

However, I think you live in a very narrow, and sheltered view. There are places in the world where people do live in fear, on a daily basis. My point is exactly that: threats and aggression to someone's life often brings them much closer to ugly parts of themselves. There are not many people in the world who can actually maintain loving-kindness in face of existential threats. While it is possible, generally, ideals tend to get thrown out the window when the pressure is on and shit hits the fan.

> I think it's important for Americans to see the homeless in our neighborhoods, ESPECIALLY us yuppies, so that we can be reminded of what a shameful failure it is that the richest country in the world still has a homeless problem this bad.

Americans living in rural areas also have it bad, but are not exactly "homeless". One of the cherished ideals is this idea of self-reliance. From their perspectives, all those city folks are crazy. And rural folks would not see themselves as being a part of the richest country in the world. Much of that wealth-building had passed them by too. Seeing laws and government policies that favor disadvantaged groups -- who are largely city-dwellers, must rub 'em the wrong way in a bad way.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#467
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like politics -- if you separate yourself into "us" versus "them", how are you ever supposed to work together to find a solution? It's not like that at all. Ideologies exist on a spectrum. And there are some on the extreme ends that are so reprehensible that there's no good reason to find a way to include them in any reasonable dialog. I don't care how hurt someone feels if they can't find a safe space to talk…

It seems like the brunt of your statement is that we should be fighting human nature itself. No wonder the problems seem so unapproachable. If you don't want to discuss reality, that is fine, but you lose the moral and intellectual high ground that you seem to think you so unquestionably have.

My argument is clear: some ideas carry no weight and deserve no recognition. Debate is for reasonable people with reasonable positions.

We've heard the same arguments from white supremacists in 1991 when Christopher Hitchens graciously hosted John Metzger Jr. (and Sr!) on his show. It was the same line then that these wet alt-right nationalists are using today: pride, freedom of speech, censorship. It didn't work on his show then and I'm not going to be fooled by this petty idea that we need to include every voice in the discussion. That's not the case and we need to maintain an "us versus them" attitude when it comes to defending ourselves against such abhorrent ideology.

The problem is not unapproachable. It takes time to change hundreds of years of oppression and institutionalized behaviour.

It's not a very high ground. It's more like a sunny hill. I think you protest too much.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mere offering of assistance to people who do not need it, and feel they should not need it, can be construed as insulting. EDIT: As mentioned to in another comment, "Special treatment feels condescending."

Honestly, why take things like that personally? Why liken it to a ghetto ? Is your pride really so hurt that someone wanted to help you out around the office that you refuse to believe that you could have learned anything useful from it? You can't even come out of it with another friend, a future business contact, an interpersonal skill, deeper knowledge of a workplace tool? It's great if some people don't think they…

You're clearly not part of a minority group.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different and opposing groups work together to find a common solution all the time. You can be different and work in a group and it not be antagonistic. This "us v. them" mentality is fostered by people who don't want to contribute with people who are different, they want everyone to assimilate into "their way." Take the "black lives matter" movement. If we followed the OPs advice, they should just protest that "all…

>Take the "black lives matter" movement. If we followed the OPs advice, they should just protest that "all lives matter" instead, That might have been more effective, even if it isn't as fair or correct. Hard to say, but in the lead up to the the latest US presidential election, there were many movements that I absolutely agreed with that I wish had shut up for just 1 year, because I could seem them fueling resentmen…

>They revolted

Hardly[0]. Don't believe the hype. The GOP won using gerrymandering, voter-suppression tactics and clever electoral positioning. Its tools: Voter ID laws and propaganda that deactivated potential voters.

0. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-electi...

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