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Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

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Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#461

Post by tnone »

MaxLeiter wrote: post #405
djsumdog wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any IRCv3 implementations? Is freenode planning on running it? I'd love a totally OSS alternative to Slack. Maybe we'll see it with the recent Gitter acquisition?

Many popular ircd's support different IRCv3 specs. Freenode, Rizon, etc all support different specs/capabilities. You can see a list here: http://ircv3.net/support/networks.html (Warning: bias/plug; I contribute to Lounge) In terms of OSS alternative to slack, I recommend you check out Lounge, a self-hosted JavaScript web client (think: selfhosted IRC version of Slack, minus/plus a few features) https://github.com/th…

Slack, minus the ability to gracefully run in any sort of long term roaming context without babysitting. There's no decent reconnecting logic on either client or server, you just have to notice it's gone quiet, and then figure out the undocumented way to restore it without nuking your settings. Only figured out by accident "/connect" without parameters is valid.

I tried to fix it, but the client is a pile of terrible code and needs a complete rewrite.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#462

Post by pbhjpbhj »

scrollaway wrote: post #413
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably though even if you're iterating hard and breaking stuff, once you're out of alpha you're not going to introduce many backwards-compatibility-breaking protocol changes? I can see doing that for v0.1 to v0.2 and maybe from v1.9.x to v2.0 but nothing about making those changes seems incompatible with sharing the details of final protocols used in your production level clients.

Take a very real example: Discord is working on video chat right now. As part of that work, it's not unthinkable they'd need to severely rework the voice/text protocols because they want to bring all of them in line with one another, reduce their tech debt or what have you. If it's an open standard, they need to check in with everyone, document the move, potentially have to explain it or depending on popularity won't…

>If it's an open standard, they need to check in with everyone //

You're​ missing the point I think (or I got cross-threaded). It's Discord's standard, making it an open standard just means the protocol details need to be public such that a third-party client that uses their protocol can send and receive messages to & from their client(s).

The people to be pleased are not just HN readers but everyone who uses an IM system as each system could, if desired, then speak direct to others. In theory it wouldn't matter that I have Facebook and you have Google, I could still message you. If the market works effectively the best protocols could then win, as could the best UX, even if they came from different companies.

If I were drafting a law on this then it would have an exclusion for SMEs or new companies, it would as you say be an unnecessary regulatory burden to require protocol openness prior to establishment of a service. We're looking at million user plus systems.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#463

Post by zigzigzag »

shmerl wrote: post #252
sneak wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why spend time building a federated system when nobody was using the last federated system? Ultimately most users just don't care about federation. Them's the facts. That's why everyone takes PayPal and only nerds use bitcoin. Slack vs IRC, too. Twitter vs GNU Social. I'm sure there are more.

Firstly not nobody. Secondly, how can you grow it if instead of moving it forward, they roll it back? That's the opposite of progress. > Ultimately most users just don't care about federation. Them's the facts. Not really. Everyone is annoyed by this issue. But there isn't much they can do. People need to register on N different services and use N different clients to communicate with users of those networks when the…

You're assuming here that federation = progress. That's the source of the disagreement.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#464

Post by gtirloni »

Markoff wrote: post #441
gtirloni wrote: post #273

At this point it would be better if they would just discontinue Talk, Hangouts, Allo, Duo, etc, etc, etc and focus on a single communications app. Give them a 6 month deadline and for the love of God, have a single app that I can use for chat, voice and video.

why insist on using Google products and not switch to Skype (lite) or Signal?

That's a good question.

Despite the awful UI, Skype serves me very well and I think they are improving quickly on Linux.

The problem is none of my friends/family use it. Some have it installed but they always use something else for chatting.

Nobody I know uses Signal.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#465

Post by kuschku »

bigbugbag wrote: post #455
kuschku wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPDATE: In case someone ever wants to know more details about why my server failed verification, here are checks for that domain I took when changing DKIM keys last (today): http://i.imgur.com/9zqILRk.png https://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3akusc... http://i.imgur.com/VIH4jlt.png

thanks for making me learn about mail-tester.com though you should probably obfuscate the email addresses in those images.

Don't worry — those email addresses in the images are public ones controlled by me.

I even have one of them in my HN profile if I recall correctly.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#466

Post by Markoff »

gtirloni wrote: post #464
Markoff wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why insist on using Google products and not switch to Skype (lite) or Signal?

That's a good question. Despite the awful UI, Skype serves me very well and I think they are improving quickly on Linux. The problem is none of my friends/family use it. Some have it installed but they always use something else for chatting. Nobody I know uses Signal.

strange, nobody i know use Google to chat or video call, some members of our family use Viber, i convinced few to Signal so they can talk to me, pretty much everyone has Skype but most of the people use it just on desktop and then when I would ask people around everyone use WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger, but Google communication apps are pretty much dead here around me in Europe somewhere slightly higher than Signal but much much lower than Skype in popularity

BTW what is so awful about Skype Lite interface? a bit more cluttered than Viber, WhatsApp or Signal, but still ok compared to Messenger nobody has problem with judging by popularity

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#467

Post by adtac »

brooklynmarket wrote: post #141

We're actually talking to Google. If they don't up their game with their Alexa like device, AKA Google Home, it's next on the chopping block. Big disconnect there. She sounds like a robot, development tools are really a fraction of what Amazon offers. The sales revenue is so high for their click model, their best minds are working on how to get people to click on ad's for shoes. Needs a shake up at Google, for sure.…

Not really relevant, but there's no binary sort :P

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#468

Post by gtirloni »

Markoff wrote: post #466
gtirloni wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good question. Despite the awful UI, Skype serves me very well and I think they are improving quickly on Linux. The problem is none of my friends/family use it. Some have it installed but they always use something else for chatting. Nobody I know uses Signal.

strange, nobody i know use Google to chat or video call, some members of our family use Viber, i convinced few to Signal so they can talk to me, pretty much everyone has Skype but most of the people use it just on desktop and then when I would ask people around everyone use WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger, but Google communication apps are pretty much dead here around me in Europe somewhere slightly higher than Signal…

It's not that everybody here is using Google apps. They aren't. They all use WhatsApp or FB Messenger. But those options are terrible to me (particularly because desktop clients are bad or non-existent)

The reasons I hope Google gets their act together is because they are in the right place to do so. They have the mindshare, just need to execute better and network effects may kick in. It also doesn't matter if they have the best platform but none of my friends/family use it. Again, Google is better positioned to make that happen, IMHO.

I don't know what Skype Lite is. I use Skype for Linux Alpha. Is that it? It seems to be missing video calls, the chat interface is complicated (spent some time trying to find the chat while in a voice call), it doesn't integrate well with the desktop (it minimizes when I close, instead of hiding in the tray). Like I said, they are improving.

As for Signal and converting people to some technology I know is better... Sorry, tried that too many times. It's not worth the time invested. These companies will have to figure out how to increase their market share without depending on tech enthusiats.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#469

Post by JD557 »

scrollaway wrote: post #83
james_pm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Gmail part would go something like: Google discontinues Gmail and Google Inbox is the replacement! Then a year later, Google intros Mail from Google, a new webmail client that is like Inbox, but has more of the classic email interface UX that users expect. A year later, they announce Inbox is going away and everyone should move to Mail from Google, which they have rebranded "Gmail".

I am reminded of the scene with the Slurm Queen in Futurama talking about "reintroducing Slurm Classic", as a jab on Coke. Realistically, if Google discontinued Gmail, people would move to other email providers. There's plenty of big ones. BTW: Want to avoid being caught in that eventuality, but don't want to stop using Gmail? Buy yourself a personal domain name (for your last name or some such) on https://www.gandi.…

>and set up a redirect to your @gmail.com address.

What do you recommend for this?

I've been wanting to do this for some time, but that means I either need to:

* Use GMail for work, which does not seem tailored for personal used (it's paid, I can't easilly find the price and it seems a bit odd to use Google solution to avoid problems with Google)

* Send all mails to my personal server and setup a redirect there to GMail (which forces me to make sure that my server is always up, so I might as well use my own mail server)

Is there a better solution? I wish there was some way to define e-mail alias at the DNS level.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#470

Post by dom0 »

ac29 wrote: post #361
dom0 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I know, as long as I have the right to use the frequencies, I could start my own cellular telco that transmits whatever format I want. Point I ("I have the right to use the frequencies") directly depends on point II ("whatever format I want"). When applying for using a certain frequency band, you have to specify usage and purpose, and you can't just change your mind, i.e. you can't apply for GSM frequenci…

>When applying for using a certain frequency band, you have to specify usage and purpose, and you can't just change your mind, i.e. you can't apply for GSM frequencies and say you will be running a GSM network, but then run the PavelLishinOverAir protocol. While this is mostly true, in practice (at least on the 450-470 MHz band I work with), you can give fairly vague purposes, like "telemetry" or "SCADA", and it does…

This likely differs a lot between countries (though there should be a common core due to ITU of what is being regulated how by whom); in my country the cellular frequencies were auctioned off for dozens of billions of euros to the cellular service providers, with strings attached, e.g. that the networks had to at least use and support 3G.

The same regulatory body (BNetzA) is also responsible for licensing telecommunications providers in general. This is probably the crunchpoint - if you're not a licensed telecommunication provider, it's simply illegal to offer telecommunication services.

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