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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#461

Post by etjossem »

adrienne wrote: post #452
etjossem wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just took that part out, after thinking about it for a little bit. Our default pattern of speech is to choose "he" or "she" if we know one of these pronouns is correct, so the use of singular-they is nearly always deliberate.

Yeah, exactly. In my observation, even when people are trying to use "they" - like if they're telling someone a story where they're deliberately obfuscating someone's gender - folks often slip up midway through.

The volume of downvotes and hate comments you are getting for standing up on this issue is disturbing. I hope some of those commenters eventually reconsider whether the acceptance of disrespectful pronouns on HN is truly the cause they want to be known for.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#463

Post by hackinthebochs »

etjossem wrote: post #453
hackinthebochs wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you feel a whistleblower who also causes unrelated data to be leaked "doesn't count," Again with the mischaracterizations! You should stop that. I feel someone who had no knowledge or suspicion of wrongdoing and no intention to just reveal wrongdoing does not count as a whistleblower. Pretty simple.

That is a fair way of looking at it (and consistent with prevailing definitions). However, Manning strongly suspected wrongdoing, made herself aware of it, and leaked a video in which it was blindingly obvious. She doesn't fall under your exclusion at all.

None of that is true as far as I'm aware. Do you have a source that Manning knew of the video ahead of time?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#464

Post by fullshark »

cwkoss wrote: post #392
fullshark wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Collusion with the media and a debate moderator should chill anyone. That is really the only significant dirt that came from that leak. The Sanders stuff was overblown.

Have you read the leaks? What parts do you think are overblown? From what I've read, it appears the DNC directly violated their own bylaws by (strongly) preferring one candidate before the primary. Repeatedly and flagrantly. If the DNC isn't even accountable to itself, how should American voters feel about them having control over the duopoly of private parties which are allowed to select presidential candidates? At…

The issue is it was clear Clinton was winning before the race was over based on polling, superdelegates, and what states were remaining. The DNC wanted to discuss (privately) how to limit damage to HRC from Sanders attacks before the general.

These sort of private discussion are totally reasonable for an organization like the DNC to have before the primary was 100% over cause they could see the writing on the wall. I didn't read every leak or anything like that but what I did see was mostly of this nature. This of course pissed off Sanders supporters (the point of the leak in the first place) but it really wasn't that bad imo.

The Brazile thing was though and I'm amazed she's not hiding in a cave somewhere in disgrace.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#465

Post by grzm »

akjainaj wrote: post #454
adrienne wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like by 2017 if someone hasn't become aware of trans issues it's because they're deliberately staying ignorant. I mean, this stuff is all over the news. Transgender people are constantly getting murdered and beaten, and people are even trying to prevent them from peeing in public bathrooms all the time . There are so many good resources about trans people online, and i expect a bunch of Smart and Rational and…

No offence, but you really sound angered and I feel somehow responsible--different people have different political views about all issues (everything is politics, after all) and we have to live with that fact. You are not going to convince others by insulting them. Also, HN is not the place to try and convince anybody to think the way you do, because that leads to flamewars (if you have an opinion, you'll stick to it…

To nitpick:

  s/guys here/HN members/
While guys can sometimes be understood to refer to a group of either sex, it's best not to generalize like this. I don't think that's a particularly political opinion.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#466

Post by anon363764 »

colechristensen wrote: post #222
mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Snowden released a large volume of information to well qualified journalists who very carefully combed through the data to find the things most relevant and important for the American public to know. Information that was legitimately classified and had no whistleblowing value simply wasn't released. Manning released a large volume of information to the public en masse with no regard to it's whistleblowing value. Some…

It's morally-consent now to offer Snowden an immunity deal in exchange for inventorying what was taken. Without meaningful whistleblower protections, the deep state remains deeply corrupted.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#467

Post by notahacker »

kordless wrote: post #449
Analemma_ wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know these days we're all treating it as an established fact that Sweden's extradition request for Assange is actually a cover for him to be further extradited to the United States, but it has never actually been proven.

Which means Assange knew it was a double bind when he said what he said. They never tried to extradite him, even if it was implied. This now means that everyone expects the US to extradite him, which is what they were trying to avoid to begin with by extraditing him to Sweden. And, if they do extradite him, the US will have to come up with a reason why they didn't to begin with. Brilliant move and interesting timing.…

Why would the US show the slightest inclination to change to its longstanding policy of not showing any interest in extraditing Assange based on a tweet?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#468

Post by rosser »

peteretep wrote: post #415
rosser wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different circumstances. Spying for money should be treated radically differently than spying for conscience.

Wasn't she spying mostly out of pique?

I don't know about "mostly", but I definitely agree that her motives weren't entirely clean.

This is why I'm very much in the "Pardon Snowden, Commute Manning" camp.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#469

Post by paraxisi »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #450
etjossem wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to prescriptive definitions for words in the English language, I trust the concurrence of Merriam-Webster and Collins a bit more than I'm willing to trust your word. You won't convince me otherwise. If you feel a whistleblower who also causes unrelated data to be leaked "doesn't count," you are welcome to take that point of view up with the publishers. Have a great day!

>If you feel a whistleblower who also causes unrelated data to be leaked "doesn't count," Again with the mischaracterizations! You should stop that. I feel someone who had no knowledge or suspicion of wrongdoing and no intention to just reveal wrongdoing does not count as a whistleblower. Pretty simple.

>I feel someone who had no knowledge or suspicion of wrongdoing and no intention to just reveal wrongdoing does not count as a whistleblower. Pretty simple.

Intelligence analyst, no knowledge or suspicion... uhhhh what?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#470

Post by croon »

stvswn wrote: post #400
dnautics wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also being tortured in custody and put into solitary is much for the crime. I don't understand why Obama had to wait so long (couldn't he have, at least done it two or three months ago?) and why he's letting Chelsea stay in the pen till summer? Why not let her out more or less now?

Because the date of Manning's release (May 17th) is international LGBT day

I would say that makes it worse. Don't you risk making it a token/pandering act instead of doing what is (arguably) the right thing to do?
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