Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 498 posts

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#461

Post by x0x0 »

stale2002 wrote: post #343
x0x0 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we've now, at the behest of these companies, redefined statists down to: - thinks it's OK for neighbors and local government to have a say in whether people run a hotel next door, possibly sharing a roof or even a wall - thinks it's OK to require pretty reasonable background checks ala Austin for taxi drivers - thinks it's OK to have some safety regulations around self driving cars sharing our roads beyond hey, i…

Congratulations, by waiting a year to implement self driving cars, through overly burdening government regulations, you just killed ten thousand people. What about those people? The people who WILL die in car accidents next year unless we do something about it. Screw them, right?

my god, idlewords couldn't have written this better

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#463

Post by stale2002 »

saosebastiao wrote: post #456
stale2002 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have that perfect safety record, but other people don't. People still crash every day in good conditions. That's thousands of lives that could be saved with our imperfect, sunny weather on the highway only self driving car. You underestimate how bad human drivers are even in perfect conditions.

You are completely missing the point, so I'll try explaining via a Reductio ad absurdum hypothetical. Lets say that Semi-Autonomous Cars are currently tested on about 80% of the tasks that humans currently face in the real world, and that through some feat of engineering and design we don't have to worry about the ridiculously messy transitions between Autonomous Mode and Human Mode. And let's say that for those 80%…

I understand what you are saying, I am just disagree with the facts.

"Human drivers could have their average 1% accident rate as a result of a 0.0% accident rate for that 80% subset "

No they couldn't, because they don't.

I am asserting that for this specific 80% of perfect conditions, humans are still terrible drivers. And that being better than them is EASY, because of just how terrible humans are at driving (even in "perfect conditions").

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#464

Post by saosebastiao »

stale2002 wrote: post #463
saosebastiao wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely missing the point, so I'll try explaining via a Reductio ad absurdum hypothetical. Lets say that Semi-Autonomous Cars are currently tested on about 80% of the tasks that humans currently face in the real world, and that through some feat of engineering and design we don't have to worry about the ridiculously messy transitions between Autonomous Mode and Human Mode. And let's say that for those 80%…

I understand what you are saying, I am just disagree with the facts. "Human drivers could have their average 1% accident rate as a result of a 0.0% accident rate for that 80% subset " No they couldn't, because they don't. I am asserting that for this specific 80% of perfect conditions, humans are still terrible drivers. And that being better than them is EASY, because of just how terrible humans are at driving (even…

> No they couldn't, because they don't.

The numbers were deliberately exaggerated to make the point. The fact stands though that until you know what the numbers are, the best answer is not easy to come by.

> I am asserting that for this specific 80% of perfect conditions, humans are still terrible drivers. And that being better than them is EASY, because of just how terrible humans are at driving (even in "perfect conditions").

And I am asserting the opposite: that the appearance of safety of autonomous vehicles is the result of highly selective conditions with near laboratory levels of control, the likes of which are so monumentally easy to handle that even humans, as shitty and inattentive as they are at driving, can handle with comparative levels of safety. And I certainly think it's possible that computers will lag behind humans for another 20-50 years while we slowly develop the massive body of fast-heuristics research necessary to make NP-complete planning decisions with the speed and capability of even below-average humans.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#465

Post by 6stringmerc »

got2surf wrote: post #215
6stringmerc wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, I'm not trying to say the profession is 100% on the up and up and you're right, people can be manipulated. That doesn't mean it's reasonable to prima-face like you did and dismiss a journalist's impressions (being cited on an Auto enthusiast site mind you) as worthless. It just struck a nerve because I'm a pretty cynical person but do my best to weigh what I've seen / gathered, and while I do admit I thi…

I'd agree with this. The journalist in question (Alex Roy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Roy ) is an auto enthusiast and race driver, and is well respected even in auto enthusiast circles, which are notoriously anti-self-driving-cars. Journalists can be manipulated, but Alex Roy's tweet ( https://twitter.com/AlexRoy144/status/791996855114694657 ) is more an endorsement by a car enthusiast with 30+ years of high…

Thanks, I appreciate your context because I think such quality of sources matter. In this instance, I thought it was appropriate to include a 3rd party of sorts who really doesn't have skin in the game.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#466

Post by avs733 »

Kadin wrote: post #399
avs733 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla does, and there has been some back and forth of personnel employment between NHTSA and Tesla as well as both have seemingly intentionally poached from each other.

Doesn't really surprise me. I mean, where else do we expect NHTSA to get people qualified to regulate self-driving cars from? I'd rather they came from industry than just not have any background at all.

Academia? where they have for many years gotten a lot of the expertise to write regulations (in all parts of government). There are tons of industry experts invovlved in these processes...but don't assume that NHTSA has no experts in this, Tesla didn't invent the self driving car, they just sold it. Research on it has been going on since the 80s and much of the delay came down to legal rather than technical issue in years past.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#467

Post by Freezerburnt »

Personally, I think it's good to see this. I work on a small part of an ADAS system being developed for a large Tier 1 supplier. They won't even look at you if you haven't adhered to ISO 26262 development standards which add - easily - 2 times the work that a normal development would take. And for good reason.

I'd like to see GH's Failure Modes and Effects Analysis, Fault Tree Analysis, Failures in Time Analysis, etc., etc., etc.

This stuff is really safe and not there yet for a REASON.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#468

Post by wyager »

mwfunk wrote: post #378
wyager wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I have to check with every relevant government agency for permission every time I do something? If an endeavor not specifically outlawed, it should be presumed legal.

If the endeavor is selling a product for use in a highly regulated industry where the failure case is death, then of course you have to work with regulatory agencies. It's not like the automotive industry is a mysterious minefield hidden in uncharted territory. If he couldn't answer these very basic questions 2 months away from shipping these things, WTF is he even doing. If he hadn't proactively initiated communicat…

> WTF is he even doing

Trying to innovate without being encumbered by the glacial pace of government regulatory bodies?

His refusal to put up with the NHTSA is an indicator of a low tolerance for bullshit, not incompetence.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#469

Post by msane »

msane wrote: post #454
henrikschroder wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that he referenced the HBO show in his Techcrunch presentation, I'd say the reference to the three comma club is probably the most likely. Also, one comma would be $1000, which is what the thing was supposed to cost.

I don't know if it was ever intended as a consumer facing name, but even without the "coma" puns, it's too wonky for customers, do you think? Besides, isn't one comma 99k worth of room? It's marketing lingo aimed at the hubris of venture capitalists.

/ or yeah a bit from Silicon Valley, got it.
Post reply on HN