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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#461

Post by nandemo »

timr wrote: post #186
whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

>or we could move to a sensible model, where software delivers on its promise and allows people to work anywhere

If people really figure out how to consistently develop any kind of software remotely, with any team size and with average programmers, a lot of programming jobs will move away from high living cost areas, as happened with manufacturing jobs.

If you're in the US, where software developer salaries are much higher than most of the rest of the world (even on developed countries average programmers don't earn 6 figures), you'll be probably be on the losing side.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#462

Post by BurningFrog »

aetherson wrote: post #436
BurningFrog wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a system where it's easy to build new housing, you don't need eminent domain. The developer simply buys two-storey homes for much more than they're worth as houses. You also don't need to limit yourself to the existing local developers with political connections. Construction workers from all over the world could move here, just like software people do.

It's not easy to buy up entire blocks of houses. You get hold-outs, either people who understand that they're in a position to block a potentially lucrative deal and get a big payout, or just people who have a sentimental attachment to their homes or whatever. The idea that there's a lot of elasticity to the construction trade is also naïve. Construction workers from "all over the world" can't move here -- we have an…

> it's not going to dramatically change everything about this city overnight.

Your post I responded to talked about 15 years, not overnight. I absolutely think SF could have been transformed with a different policy if starting in 2001.

Even without any immigrants, there are an enormous amount of construction workers among our 300 million US citizens.

The idea that it's so incredibly hard to build a lot of housing over 15 years is disproven by the many successful big cities that actually do it.

> This dream of in-fill development being a simple cure-all to San Francisco's housing ills

Again, nobody is talking about a simple cure-all in three easy $19.95 payments.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#463

Post by yolesaber »

rconti wrote: post #251
humbleMouse wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mentioned not being able to get a good meal after 9:30pm. That was the most frustrating thing about being in San Francisco for me. I hated that the whole bay seemed to shut down @10pm - almost as if everybody has to wake up the next morning to work another 12 hour day to pay the insane rent.....

I guess I always end up in the wrong parts of NYC because I kept finding that all the restaurants closed at 10pm (during the week, at least)... say, in Chelsea.

Chelsea doesn't have the best food options. You could go south to Meatpacking which is a bit better but I'd just walk east. Flatiron / Union Square has tons of food options that are open late plus solid bars. Walk even further to the East Village and you're golden, there's like two twenty-four hour restaurants within a block's radius of each other.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#464

Post by BurningFrog »

timr wrote: post #186
whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

...or we could move to a sensible model, where software delivers on its promise and allows people to work anywhere.

This is a false alternative, since it's not something SF government can do.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#465

Post by traskjd »

We've just setup a new office for our company (https://raygun.com) in Seattle. We have a small office in SF, but going to building a much larger one up here (we're HQ'd in Wellington, New Zealand)

Seattle locals complain a little about all the cranes across the skyline. I see it another way - Seattle is absolutely going to eat SF's lunch if it doesn't change.

You already have Microsoft, Boeing, etc here. Google, Facebook and Space X have now opened offices too. This city seems to be fully engaged handling that growth and how to capitalize on it. We've been receiving flyers about developing the transit system for the next 25 years. A far cry from the sassy (and painfully accurate) BART twitter account calling out the lack of investment in it.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's some real problems with the inelastic supply of housing in the SF/Bay Area.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#466

Post by gozur88 »

padmanabhan01 wrote: post #336
humbleMouse wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mentioned not being able to get a good meal after 9:30pm. That was the most frustrating thing about being in San Francisco for me. I hated that the whole bay seemed to shut down @10pm - almost as if everybody has to wake up the next morning to work another 12 hour day to pay the insane rent.....

I find it to be one of the mysteries of bay area. I don't understand how a city this size can manage to have nothing open after 10 pm. Is there a reason to this? Surely it can't be all shop owners getting to gather and saying ok let's all close shop at 10..

I don't know if it's true for SF, but some cities have noise ordinances that pretty much shut everything down by a certain time.

As others have noted, people who have the sorts of jobs that put them behind a register can't afford to live in SF, and public transportation shuts down at midnight or so. If you were working a restaurant it would have to close by 10:00 so you had time to clean up with a little buffer to make sure you were on the last train.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#467

Post by mud_dauber »

jimminy wrote: post #396
mountaineer22 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Irish Pub?

Since you know of it, if you're ever around and would like to grab a pint feel frre to send me an email at james@jimminy.me

Greetings from another WV refugee. Austin by way of Elkview. I have tons of relatives from Greenbrier County.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#468

Post by planteen »

nicholasjarnold wrote: post #167
cmurf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Denver. Realtor told me 1/4 of properties don't make the MLS, they're bought with cash before they can get listed.

Here's a tip for Denver real estate that just worked very well for my wife an myself (who are closing on a house this week): Do not use a buyer's agent (get real estate attorney to help you instead), and make your offer 2.5% lower than the asking price. When making the offer just say that since there is no buyer's agent commission to pay out from the funds at closing you are choosing to offer less. Don't worry if the…

Thanks for that. I'm in Denver also looking to buy in the best future. Do you have a recommendation for a real estate attorney? My email is my username @gmail.com if you don't want to say publically.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#469

Post by pinot »

bobbygoodlatte wrote: post #278
physcab wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. My sister is a civil engineer on the SMART train - supposed to have been light rail from Fishermans Wharf all the way to Santa Rosa. The Golden Gate Bridge actually has a railway line below it that hasn't been used. But the train will only go to Larkspur ferry because Marin disallowed it.

Would love to read more about this un-used railway line. Big fan of the GGB and its history

It doesn't exist.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#470

Post by nikanj »

nosuchthing wrote: post #409
derefr wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything closing at 9PM is pretty much par for the course here in Vancouver, another city with the skyrocketing cost-of-living thing going on. I wonder if there's a correlation. Maybe everyone is rich enough to pay delivery services or maids or something to get their shopping done while they're at work, so there's no demand for 24-hour businesses? Then again, another thing with Vancouver (that I think I've heard sa…

Vancouver anecdote; bars are not night life. I visited for two weeks and discovered a local music festival (music waste), befriended random folks at parks (parks were everywhere, and people actually used them!). East Van seemed to have a lively night life on par with SF/LA, people hosting live bands in their loft, avant-garde burlesque theater, house parties etc. It sounded like there was a lively festival scene in B…

Vancouver parks close for the night, usually at dusk or 10pm
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