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Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

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Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#451
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consoles made sense as a product category where specialized graphics hardware was not generally available for consumer PCs. We have this now, every PC has some kind of graphics hardware, and has for many years. Consoles have been riding on their momentum of their brands , but the technical justification for their product category hasn't existed for 15+ years now.

Consoles don't have true 'generational leaps' any more either, the huge leaps forward in tech used to drive excitement/sales. Now we get incremental improvements, cross-generation games, and backwards compatibility. And AAA game development isn't exactly doing well these days.

Exactly. Indie development is where it's at. The best game I played in the last five years was probably A Short Hike. It moved me and inspired me to get back into game dev and it was made by one person

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#452

Sony is obviously the villain here (and pretty much always) but I think this points to an unsolved problem with our model of digital ownership: it's based on the media company providing a service...forever? People in this thread are saying customers should get refunds and I disagree - customers should get video files! We need a model of digital ownership that does not involve the media owner forever delivering that m…

But if you just gave customers the video files, they’d get leaked. We can’t have 4K Dolby Vision + Atmos files just floating around for people to pirate!

Oh wait, despite all the DRM we have that anyway. What a huge waste of effort all this protection has been.

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What multiple of Beyonce's income is made by the corporation that manages her?

I don't know. But given that Beyoncé formed her own management company about 15 years ago I'm not sure the answer was going to make the point you were intending anyway.

[deleted]

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawsuit would have to prove that Sony didn't abide by it's T&Cs, which it seems like they may well have. The issue then is whether it's OK to have T&Cs that seemingly conflict with the "buy" characterization that customers are presented with.

I strongly feel that if I click on a button that says “Buy” I am making a permanent purchase. The verb should be called “License” or “Lease” to reflect the nature of the transaction or it is inherently deceptive and should be illegal.

Pretty sure the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) is going to have a field day with this.

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it though? The incremental revenue from customers renting something and then renting it again is going to be very small. The "loss" from providing them with a permanent copy instead would be a rounding error, especially for a product with no marginal cost. It destroys the library model used by Spotify, Netflix, and all the other similar services for one example. Those are clearly not working on the same basis as…

> It destroys the library model used by Spotify, Netflix, and all the other similar services for one example. Why would that model not work if you got to keep one copy of the current catalog? Consider the existing failure mode of the fractured streaming market: The user signs up for Netflix for one month, binge watches everything they're not caught up on, cancels, signs up for Disney+ the next month, does the same, r…

I might not have much time to continue here in the next few days so I'll start by thanking you for the interesting and thoughtful discussion.

I do agree with some of your important points. It is a problem that copyright works by creating an artificial monopoly without sufficient control on how that monopoly is then used. It is a problem if there's insufficient incentive for creators to make works permanently available to those who want them. As I said earlier I do think some reform is needed in this area.

I don't think that's sufficient today to support your central argument that works should only be available on a permanent basis. The two financial models we've been discussing are a trade off between having access to specific works indefinitely (the sale model) and having access to many more works but only for a limited period of time (the library model). Either way the scope is limited and that makes the price viable. I don't think the prices for streaming services that operated on the alternative basis you're proposing would stay the same. I think they would go way up and that could reduce a lot of people's ability to access the long tail of works that they wouldn't want to spend the full price to buy permanently.

I also want to point out that your views here appear to be based on the US implementation of copyright. Some aspects of copyright in the US are at least questionable under the related international treaties already but pragmatically the US is powerful enough economically that its big companies can get away with a lot for now. Likewise the US itself can get away with having very generic fair use exceptions in its laws. That could change - with very significant economic effects - if the US attempted the kind of legal shift you're proposing without engaging strong international support first. And that would obviously require convincing everyone that the economics would continue to work. In any case some of your arguments about backups and physical media wouldn't apply in most of the world (or even in the US given the DMCA - but of course DRM and the legal protection it's been given around the world is a whole controversy in itself because it potentially makes a lot of the legitimate criticisms of copyright even worse).

IMHO your last point is the place we should look first. The problem is that the market isn't really competitive when copyright holders can license the works exclusively. This leads to problems like works only being available on a single streaming service or broadcast on a single TV channel. Sometimes different seasons of the same show or successive films from the same series end up on different services or channels. Sometimes works get yanked from a streaming service's library with relatively little notice when their deal runs out. If we changed the rules so that works being offered commercially to one distributor also had to be offered to other distributors with similar terms and pricing and within a relatively short time then I think that alone would restore a lot of healthy competition in the market and solve some of the significant problems with how the current distribution models are working. And importantly it is relatively practical to explore options in this area compared to trying to radically restructure the entire copyright model globally.

There's a lot more that we could discuss here. For example we haven't even touched on creative works like software that tend to be updated over time and the different models for supporting that. We haven't considered how to deal with work of potentially high value but a short useful lifetime like news reporting and investigative journalism either. It's a huge area - and that's a big part of why I think throwing out the whole principle of limited licences in favour of allowing only permanent sales is probably not the right way to go here. But the problems are real and I do agree with you that the system could be significantly better than it is today.

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Carmack said it in about 2011, if you cannot make your game vision work on a 360 or PS3 you are doing something wrong. I get that we have made huge strides in rendering tech, but the broad idea behind that I can still get behind. Other than higher res assets, shaders and cleaner rendering; I havent seen anything that probably couldnt be done on those systems and still broadly have the same overall feel.

I do agree that gameplay is king, but a counterexample would be Cyberpunk 2077 that can't meaningfully run on hardware that old. It runs really nicely on my SteamDeck however.

A game with all the elements, architecture and gameplay of cyberpunk could be made that would run on a PS3, it just wouldn't look anywhere near the same

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws are great and all. But what we really need is a massive boycott. Stop buying shit manufactured or sold by Sony for a year. That alone will probably force them to backtrack every single anti consumer decision they've made recently.

I gave up on Sony for life when they tried to install a rootkit on my computer from an audio CD years ago and I see no reason to change.

I didn't take the hint then but I also will never buy any Sony product ever again. I have two headphones from them. Both noise canceling. When the model year passes they push one final firmware to make ANC shit. Then they deny it. I thought if I got the fancier one I would be OK but it doesn't turn on anymore. Very comfortable ear warmers. (Simple shitty solder without support probably. Gotta open it up and look sometime.)

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I think people should buy from GoG for exactly this reason. But also, the difference is that Steam has as far as I can tell never yanked a game from someone's account and failed to refund them for it. Games either get delisted and you retain access to them or they're removed entirely and they refund you. The only exception is online-only games whose developer stops maintaining the server, but I think it's reas…

Has Sony yanked a game? I know they have delisted some but I have not heard of one ever being removed from a user’s library and couldn’t find a reported instance of that happening. Sony’s agreement with game publishers does not leave them the right to do this. I do not think there is any online platform that can make such guarantees for movies.

They are disabling PS3 store access, and if I remember correctly, you could purchase digital games on the PS3.

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#459
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can't say I know anyone IRL who has any interest in leaving PlayStation As a counterpoint to that. Most of my 30+ year old dad gamer friends (all of us are the type to own a PC, switch and ps5 pretty much) all are considering whether this will be our last sony generation as most of us are either physical copy people or suspect the pricing will be bad without a second hand market to compete. I don't think there is…

When I was a PS3 guy I remember the prices in Playstation Store typically being $10 or more higher than what you could get physical copies for, and things never went on sale. Having one storefront for all game sales seems like an absolutely terrible deal for consumers.

It's the other way around now. Walmart has more games than GameStop, and you're lucky to get $10 off, ever. The PlayStation store is never more than MSRP and frequently has sales. They have a Summer Sale going on right now.

Ghost of Yōtei is 25% off, the bundle of the Final Fantasy XIV MMO and all expansions is 50% off, some things are down 75%.

Re: Sony deletes more movies from the accounts of people who ‘bought’ them

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”Revocation should come with full refunds.” Of course it should. If Sony are not doing that then it sounds like grounds for a class action? I remember when Google shut down Stadia. To their credit, they automatically refunded everything I’d ever purchased on the platform. Nice little windfall.

The lawsuit would have to prove that Sony didn't abide by it's T&Cs, which it seems like they may well have. The issue then is whether it's OK to have T&Cs that seemingly conflict with the "buy" characterization that customers are presented with.

I believe generally contract law is not as hard-and-fast as people think. You can truly put anything in a contract. But... that doesn't necessarily mean it's God's word. Even if everyone read it and signed it. I can't take your first born even if you willingly agree. Well, I can in some instances - a company can't buy your first born I should say.

Also many contracts are just uncontested. Everyone is just hoping they work, but nobody is testing it out.

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