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Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

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Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#451

Post by mike_hearn »

gigel82 wrote: post #203
bob1029 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebView2 can be a fantastic experience when the application is designed around it with intent. It can't be a technological afterthought. Taking an application that was designed for web and throwing it in a desktop shell is how you wind up with bad experiences. A hybrid of WebView2 and native elements seems to be the best approach. You can completely hide the browser startup delay with these techniques. The Discord en…

Until you look at memory consumption in Task Manager or Process Explorer. WebView2 spawns ~400Mb worth of various browser processes. Your main app process by itself might look nice and slim, but all that (somewhat hidden) cost is atrocious.

Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense because you can run all the Chrome components in-process, and in this case WebView2 is rendering trusted code written by Microsoft that isn't going to try and exploit the renderer (HTML email is very limited, doesn't support JS at all).

Processes in Windows are very expensive objects. They could probably reduce the overhead by allowing more customization of the Chrome codebase for this. Mojo abstractions service location.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#452

Post by DrBazza »

raincole wrote: post #351
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

MS has inertia on its side, and its abusive marketing and lock-in strategies of the 90s. Remember when you couldn't buy a PC without Windows from most vendors? Meaning you were paying MS, even if you immediately uninstalled it?

The long term outcome of that is that 90+% of industry still buys Windows PCs. And non-industry: once non-techie people are on an OS (Windows/MacOS), many don't move off it, though Apple's ecosystem has been a good carrot+stick.

One of the more interesting indicators is (even though desktop software is in decline) - the number of apps that are Windows and Mac and maybe linux, and the increasing number of apps that Mac-only or Mac+Linux but do NOT have a Windows download. Something unimaginable in the 90s and 00s.

MS are certainly accelerating adoption of other platforms due to their own mismanagement.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#453

Post by jjav »

modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019.

Linux has been a fine desktop since almost its beginning.

My first work-issued laptop was in 1994, running Linux. Using a PCMCIA modem to connect to the internet via dialup. Worked perfect. Every year since then (that's 32 years now) I've had Linux desktop(s) and laptop(s) and it all works fine.

If one looks for excuses, excuses can be found, but it has worked fine since the beginning.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#454

Post by jjav »

tyre wrote: post #334
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

Have you tried a Mac? Apple silicon is fantastic, build quality is the best on the market, you're still running a unix OS, and there's a huge community of developers + companies making things work.

> you're still running a unix OS

They are trying so hard to destroy that, basically nothing is left.

Just yesterday I needed to run equivalent of strace on a mac to trace system call. Great, it has dtruss (truss was the command on Solaris). Turns out dtruss is still there, but apple has completely broken it, it doesn't work.

Just an example of how extremely developer-hostile Apple is.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#455

Post by SomeUserName432 »

patates wrote: post #8

> Outlook is based on WebView2, and like all web apps, it’s slow Fastmail also has a web based email client, which is as fast as (if not faster than) Outlook Classic. The new Outlook is just bad. Load order is wrong, it renders everything on every window, loads unnecessary data, etc. Plain annoying.

I maintain a program using WebView2, it runs quite nicely.

It needs to render custom content, and the HTML renderer is much faster than I'm able to make it myself using the native API.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#456

Post by Markoff »

modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

get back to me when you will be able to install easily Chinese keyboard/input into Linux as you can with Windows and when you will be easily switch keyboards with alt+left shift, I was setting up computers with Linux and it's major PITA for such basic thing, same with reassigning right alt and windows menu keys to different buttons (Home/End) on laptop

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#457

Post by SCdF »

nmjenkins wrote: post #329
jonpurdy wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally switched on "Enable offline support", caching "All mail" offline on my iPhone a few months ago. Tons of free space, only using 4GB for offline. But when my phone is actually offline (on a plane or elevator) it beachballs when trying to find something.

(I work for Fastmail). That sounds odd – have you contacted our support team so we can look into it? https://www.fastmail.com/support/

Not OP, but I had to change the mail cache from all mail to recent, I think because it couldn't handle how much mail I had? It would often get stuck not syncing, and offline would be unreliable and showing a blank screen. Recent works fine, but it would be worthwhile folks testing more with all mail enabled, especially if they have larger inboxes.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#460

Post by ChrisRR »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #22
netsharc wrote: post #5

Started a new job, with Windows 11. notepad.exe now takes 3 to 4 seconds to load on my work system... (even after closing the last tab and reopening the program). Hah, it even has in-app purchases, for AI writing...

Microslop at its best. I’m struggling to understand what their end goal is. How much can you half ass everything until your entire company becomes just a nuisance.

Remember that all of microsoft's divisions are competing against each other and they all have to turn a profit. So windows has to include AI, xbox, both onedrive and sharepoint, teams, etc. and so you end up with the worst of all worlds
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