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Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

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Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#451

Post by solenoid0937 »

arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #450
solenoid0937 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, it does, it is literally the definition of data No, feelings are not reliable data when frequency bias and misinformation exist. There is a reason most experiments isolate out bias as much as possible. > Moreover, benchmarks (that matter) are not run continuously all the time. So there's no data? > What do you think different token distribution means? You clearly did not understand anything I said. Stated simp…

> Feelings Nice gaslighting, Anthopic shill. No one said a word about feelings, only you (to derail the conversation). People reported their own experience and frustration with the model being unable to complete tasks they previously could. I said, get a better playbook before coming back. Or is it the best LLMs can do for now? Sad, then. > No data There is data, which you try to gaslight into being "feelings", Antho…

Again, you're just interpreting anything that goes against the "AI bad" grain as shilling.

> There is data

Please show it.

> while ignoring the actual meaning of the words

It was an incoherent mess of insults, so I am still not sure what you're trying to say.

> Yeah, in your dreams maybe

So now I'm lying about my employment on an anonymous forum for... what, exactly? If you are actually this conspiratorial IRL, get help.

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#452

Post by arkadiytehgraet »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #451
arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feelings Nice gaslighting, Anthopic shill. No one said a word about feelings, only you (to derail the conversation). People reported their own experience and frustration with the model being unable to complete tasks they previously could. I said, get a better playbook before coming back. Or is it the best LLMs can do for now? Sad, then. > No data There is data, which you try to gaslight into being "feelings", Antho…

Again, you're just interpreting anything that goes against the "AI bad" grain as shilling. > There is data Please show it. > while ignoring the actual meaning of the words It was an incoherent mess of insults, so I am still not sure what you're trying to say. > Yeah, in your dreams maybe So now I'm lying about my employment on an anonymous forum for... what, exactly? If you are actually this conspiratorial IRL, get h…

> Again, you're just interpreting anything that goes against the "AI bad" grain as shilling.

Once again, putting "AI bad" into my words. No, Anthropic shill, this is not what I am saying. Is your LLM malfunctioning or are you not really getting it? Stop gaslighting, Anthropic shill, and try to stick to the actual words I am saying. I understand that this is hard for you, because then you would have no real argument to make, but please try, Anthropic shill.

> Please show it.

I used an LLM to count actual experiences of people reporting their experience with Opus 4.6 being degraded. There are literally several hundreds of such data points. This is data. People, who are employed and actually use LLMs for coding, unlike you, Anthropic shill, who uses it only to poison online communities. Are you really going to disregard all that to claim it is mass-psychosis or something? I guess you would, Anthropic shill, because that's your job, to peddle bullshit LLM-hype unbased on anything in reality.

> It was an incoherent mess of insults, so I am still not sure what you're trying to say.

Repeat after me, Anthropic shill: being called a shill is not an insult. You are a shill, stop being obtuse and at least take some pride in your work of promoting LLM-hype. So once again you are providing nothing to the conversation except for baseless accusations of insulting, which I did not do, and refuse to answer to the actual arguments I made. I can provide it again, but you would likely ignore it because it just showcases how you are clueless about the topic.

Your words, not mine:

> Third, and most importantly, the actual output measurably changes. Quants have a lower latency, higher TPS, and different token distribution.

I asked if you understood what "different token distribution" meant. I can tell you what it means: models performing worse at coding tasks. So people report models being worse at coding tasks, YOU write that indeed quantization leads to that and then just "forgot" about it? Nice level of "objective" discussion, Anthropic shill.

> So now I'm lying about my employment on an anonymous forum for... what, exactly?

It is not anonymous forum, as much as you would have liked it to be, so that your shilling could not be dismissed as easily, Anthropic shill. For what? So that people would fall for the bullshit you are peddling. Are you really this dense, Anthropic shill?

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#453

Post by solenoid0937 »

arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #452
solenoid0937 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you're just interpreting anything that goes against the "AI bad" grain as shilling. > There is data Please show it. > while ignoring the actual meaning of the words It was an incoherent mess of insults, so I am still not sure what you're trying to say. > Yeah, in your dreams maybe So now I'm lying about my employment on an anonymous forum for... what, exactly? If you are actually this conspiratorial IRL, get h…

> Again, you're just interpreting anything that goes against the "AI bad" grain as shilling. Once again, putting "AI bad" into my words. No, Anthropic shill, this is not what I am saying. Is your LLM malfunctioning or are you not really getting it? Stop gaslighting, Anthropic shill, and try to stick to the actual words I am saying. I understand that this is hard for you, because then you would have no real argument t…

I must admit I skimmed most of your comment because it is largely an incoherent rant, but I will address some points:

> This is data.

Nope. Because frequency bias is a thing. If you hear on Twitter "model X got nerfed," your brain will look for that pattern and notice it more than usual. This will then confirm your suspicion, which leads to a vicious cycle. Then you tell your friends and the same phenomenon repeats.

None of this requires the model to get worse. It's a well understood psychological phenomenon.

> I can tell you what it means: models performing worse at coding tasks. So people report models being worse at coding tasks

The perception of a model performing worse at some coding task is not what "different token distribution" means. You should ask AI to explain my comment ;)

Latency and TPS can also tell you if you're getting a quant.

Anyways you should really get some help. Praying for you!

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#454

Post by arkadiytehgraet »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #453
arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, you're just interpreting anything that goes against the "AI bad" grain as shilling. Once again, putting "AI bad" into my words. No, Anthropic shill, this is not what I am saying. Is your LLM malfunctioning or are you not really getting it? Stop gaslighting, Anthropic shill, and try to stick to the actual words I am saying. I understand that this is hard for you, because then you would have no real argument t…

I must admit I skimmed most of your comment because it is largely an incoherent rant, but I will address some points: > This is data. Nope. Because frequency bias is a thing. If you hear on Twitter "model X got nerfed," your brain will look for that pattern and notice it more than usual. This will then confirm your suspicion, which leads to a vicious cycle. Then you tell your friends and the same phenomenon repeats.…

> frequency bias

Gaslighting again, Anthropic shill. What does frequency bias have to do with the objective fact that hundreds of people reported their own experiences with LLMs being degraded over a short period of time? The very same tasks that the very same LLMs could do, they no longer can? You seem to ignore this FACT, this DATA, and instead have to gaslight and divert into "frequency bias" nonsense. I do understand, why you are doing it, Anthropic shill, but at least have guts to admit it.

> perception of a model

You once again ignore what your LLM outputted and you typed yourself and divert into "perception", Anthropic shill. You do not need to sample entire output for tokens to notice the distribution moving. If the LLM used to be able to achieve set goals and no longer could, it is already a sign of the distribution shift. And as you said yourself, different token distribution = model being quantized. Which is reported in hundreds of separate instances. Which is more than enough to conclude that the model was, in fact, quantized, and no amount of gaslighting can change that. But you are an Anthropic shill, so you have to peddle your bullshit, trying to twist facts to support your employer's narrative. And you deserve being called out on that, Anthropic shill.

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#455

Post by EdwardDiego »

samastur wrote: post #274
EdwardDiego wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to 4.7, didn't have a choice, found it unsatisfactory, then Claude quietly added in the option to use 4.6, so I'm back on 4.6, and I'm not the only one in my company. I had far more hallucinations with 4.7 than 4.6. I'll try it again after a few more months for them to get it right, but 4.6 is what changed my mind on LLMs as a tool, and 4.7 felt like a step backwards, so for now I'm sticking with something tha…

How did you manage to do that? /model command returns only 4 choices for me: Opus 4.7, two Sonnet options and Haiku.

Enterprise pricing I'm guessing

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#456

Post by EdwardDiego »

whiplash451 wrote: post #341
EdwardDiego wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to 4.7, didn't have a choice, found it unsatisfactory, then Claude quietly added in the option to use 4.6, so I'm back on 4.6, and I'm not the only one in my company. I had far more hallucinations with 4.7 than 4.6. I'll try it again after a few more months for them to get it right, but 4.6 is what changed my mind on LLMs as a tool, and 4.7 felt like a step backwards, so for now I'm sticking with something tha…

Opus 4.7 went through a major degradation a few weeks ago (way more hallucinations and rabbit holes than usual). Anthropic fixed it. Give it another shot.

Sweet, will check it out :)

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#457

Post by solenoid0937 »

arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #454
solenoid0937 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must admit I skimmed most of your comment because it is largely an incoherent rant, but I will address some points: > This is data. Nope. Because frequency bias is a thing. If you hear on Twitter "model X got nerfed," your brain will look for that pattern and notice it more than usual. This will then confirm your suspicion, which leads to a vicious cycle. Then you tell your friends and the same phenomenon repeats.…

> frequency bias Gaslighting again, Anthropic shill. What does frequency bias have to do with the objective fact that hundreds of people reported their own experiences with LLMs being degraded over a short period of time? The very same tasks that the very same LLMs could do, they no longer can? You seem to ignore this FACT, this DATA, and instead have to gaslight and divert into "frequency bias" nonsense. I do unders…

> What does frequency bias have to do with the objective fact that hundreds of people reported

This isn't hard to understand

"Model is nerfed" claim hits social media

Someone else sees it, frequency bias makes them think their model is also nerfed, and they amplify the claim

Now it spreads, like a virus, even if the model never changed

Social dynamics like this are well understood psychologically

> If the LLM used to be able to achieve set goals and no longer could, it is already a sign of the distribution shift.

The more likely explanation is that you're looking at older LLMs with rose tinted glasses, and misremembering what it could achieve

Otherwise you could measure the token shift and see the better tps and latency

Your own evals would trend down

But no one, not one person, has presented empirical evidence of being served a quant. Just vibes.

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#458

Post by pwarner »

Quothling wrote: post #373
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #157

From reading the article. They offered their developers both Claude code and Copilot. What they wanted was for them to use both and feedback which was better. The developers voted with their feet and didn’t use Copilot. What Microsoft were hoping was that the opposite would happen...

Maybe it's just Microsoft moving to more model agnostic tech within their copilot. I recently started using Microsoft 365 Copilot because corporate added Cowork which runs on Opus 4.7 which was better than the alternative we have available. Unlike the "real" Claude Code or Cowork this only has access to files in a specific onedrive folder in your personal sharepoint container, so it's much more compliant to things li…

Copilot Cowork seems to be the best part of M365 Copilot by a huge margin.

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#459

Post by bel8 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #440
bel8 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) They can still use Anthropic models. 2) Opus is not even unambiguously best at coding anymore. GPT 5.5 splits that title for some time now. 3) I would have probably done the same in his position. Dogfood the product.

Dogfooding only works if it actually helps improve the product. zune never improved. Dogfooding without improving is just eating dog food for no good reason.

Sure success is not guaranteed. But dogfooding helps.

Should Microsoft have stopped dogfooding because of Zune?

They are worth multiples of trillion dollars so I would wager they know a little more about success than you and me.

Re: Microsoft starts canceling Claude Code licenses

#460

Post by apsurd »

lumost wrote: post #446
apsurd wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your project cost $5k in tokens? How does that work? over what time? My understanding is that most developers are given pro max plans at $200/m and are expected to max that out. I've been getting by on the $200/year plan by smoothing usage continuously over time. The pay per use is for the API so does it mean you're using the API in a custom setup?

Maxed out the 200 dollar per month plan then incurred the overage. This was over the span of 1 month or so.

thanks, yeah i thought how'd it have to be time constrained, maxed out the monthly allotment. that makes sense.

also using the latest model will burn those tokens. I've been so psychologically frugal with my token usage that's why i'm very curious about it all. it's a different paradigm, as an engineer, to go from "software should be free" to watching a meter tick at every turn.

thanks for sharing.

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