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Google Declaring War on the Web

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Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#451

Post by graemep »

analogpixel wrote: post #29

I feel like AI has gotten to the point where the message is: If you want to make something (art/code/music/writing) you can do it for your own enjoyment, but you aren't allowed to make money from it anymore; only the large corporations can make money from content. If you do release something creative, it'll just be fed back into the machine to be copied over and over.

If you look at the development of copyright law it started to protect the profits of businesses (the Statute of Queen Ann was, at leat in part, intended to compensate members of the Stationers' Company for loss of their monopoly), then maybe improved somewhat, but for the last few decades has been driven by big business lobbying.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#452

Post by graemep »

rainbowDolphin wrote: post #223
technotarek wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a furniture maker, but I have a rather close connection to the industry. I used to hate ikea furniture. In fact I hated almost all modern furniture that mass market, that wasn’t high end. I was a huge proponent of vintage furniture ( and still am), but I have really come around on ikea. They sure still make some crap, but they also make some genuinely innovative pieces that can last if you treat them with a b…

Agreed. I was a carpenter for a long time and have built everything from completely disposable structures to things that ended up in Design Within Reach. I think Ikea is great. Sure, the cheaper stuff consists of veneered particle board at best. But they (at least used to) use thicker veneers, often include relatively high quality hardware, and make some products that are just completely solid (stainless kitchen gear…

Billy bookshelves seem pretty good even though they are veneered board of some kind. I have several and they have lasted many years (eve ones bought second hand) and moves. Not the best, but not terrible and great value for money.

The cubical storage units are pretty solid and practical.

On the other hand the IKEA wardrobe I have is falling to pieces.

> What gets to me are places like West Elm and similar companies. Mid-Century design, but it's the same veneered particle board as the much cheaper Ikea stuff, and costs far more.

Somewhat similar to what I was thinking. In the UK John Lewis sell (or used to) sell bookshelves very similar to a Billy (in construction and appearance depending on the veneer) at three times the price.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#453

Post by edg5000 »

Gormo wrote: post #406
edg5000 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. It's a massive shift of power, all being centralized. As you mentioned, they know they need good data though, so they might actually try to find some equilibrium. If not, it's possible that the creation of new valuable content, to feed the LLMs, will be produced in-house by the AI labs. Sounds insane, but Netflix also makes their own content. I think the AI labs will become so big that they'll take on more role…

> True. It's a massive shift of power, all being centralized. It may seem that way in the short term. But in the long term, the tendency in technical development is for the infrastructure and capital requirements for new technology to start off very high, but then shrink over time, such that use cases that required massive amounts of upfront investment in the early stages become incrementally more viable at smaller a…

Your positive view makes sense to me and is refreshing. Let's see how things play out. So the pattern will be: that which can be done with smaller models will be decentralized first; gradually the more advanced stuff will become within reach. I already do use google search's AI Mode (probably a 300B model) for many quick questions. Local models would be great for things like checking my email and many other things (sensitive + continuously running = not suitable for Opus). My 64GB DDR4 laptop can already run Qwen 47B at .7 tok/s, that's already usable for some usecases (overnight stuff mostly).

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#454

Post by graemep »

newaccountman2 wrote: post #426
marcus_holmes wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is actually a counter-example of what you think it is. Chairs should last generations. A chair lasting 11 years is not exemplary. A chair falling apart after a few years should be the exception, and a bad thing at that. Again, Vimes Theory: rich folks inherit furniture that their grandparents bought, and maybe need to get it re-upholstered once in their lifetime. Poor folks have to pay for new furniture…

> Chairs should last generations. A chair lasting 11 years is not exemplary. A chair falling apart after a few years should be the exception, and a bad thing at that. IDK, this feels to me more like an aspiration or desire about what furniture quality should generally be, and not really a description of what most furniture is actually like. > rich folks inherit furniture that their grandparents bought, and maybe need…

Stuff that has lasted two generation will be antique-ish (if not actually antique) and usually nice. It will have the quality it should, rather than the quality most furniture has.

All my grandparents' furniture is properly jointed and made of good wood.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#455

Post by lelanthran »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #438
lelanthran wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They would be paid a different amount if the quality of their product was attributable by the customer to the specific producer. You are proposing a hypothetical; that is not what is currently happening.

The thing that isn't currently happening is the stores attributing the source of their produce. It's obviously not a hypothetical that customers have preferences between different sources when they're actually provided with that information, or those preferences affect the sales of each supplier.

> It's obviously not a hypothetical that customers have preferences between different sources when they're actually provided with that information, or those preferences affect the sales of each supplier.

I suppose we have to agree to disagree: I see no evidence of the specific claim of yours that customers have a preference for specific individuals picking fruit (or whatever).

A specific brand? Sure. A specific niche (free-range, whatever), sure. A specific individuals labour? Yeah, I'd need to see some evidence for that!

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#456

Post by inamorty »

nunez wrote: post #427
lelanthran wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there’s also a lot of people who haven’t quite realized what side they’re on. A ton of techies confused better than average pay with being part of the upper class and didn’t realize that the average CEO/VC views us roughly the same as the janitors except more expensive and less reliable. For all those coders who claim "coding is the smallest part of s/ware dev", they're in for a rude awakening when they rea…

Exactly what I keep saying. Yet, the reply every time is "my job is to solve problems, not write code." Ok, bud; sure. I didn't start my professional career as a BA 20 years ago that did exactly what most devs are being "gently forced" into doing now, but whatever.

Ok, bud; sure.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#457

Post by snapplebobapple »

danaris wrote: post #339
snapplebobapple wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

man... hacker news is making me sad here. The blatantly obvious stuff that leans left gets upvoted +5 and the blatantly obvious comment made by me directly before this one that leans right is -1. This place used to care more about the correct answer.

> upvoted +5 Spot the (other) Slashdot refugee! (And why were you at the Devil's Sacrament, Mr. Danaris?)

yah, I was on there in the literal 90's and drifted away in the late 2000's. It's still in my rss reader but I never look at it anymore. Other places have a better smattering of news I care about and I never see tech or other things I am interested there first. It probably was going down hill at rob Malda was prepping to leave and then left but I noticed it in the quality of the output and drifted away more than anything. Did it turn into a virtue signalling cess pool along with reddit and the large portions of the web after I left?

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#458

Post by itsmek »

nstart wrote: post #333
pembrook wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the craft to mass production pipeline (democratization) is frustrating for the individual craftsman, as has been true for hundreds of years. AI is simply the assembly line for the digital realm. It takes the trendy products of the rich (custom software, McKinsey PowerPoint decks, etc) and mass produces them in the same style so everyone can afford to buy them at Walmart. For things where the exclusivity WAS the…

That is a very poor comparison. Firstly, you're ignoring that behind the mass manufactured stuff, there's a lot of abused labour. People do protest that. Because of how money works, it's also impossible to avoid it. Second, machinery that automated work isn't remotely the same. Engineers have built and refined the machines without having to go and inspect every new work that has been created by artisans each time. Cr…

The thesis of the person you're replying to seems to be that this is just another in the long line of mechanized crafts, and that it's hypocritical not to be equally anti-loom as anti LLM, for example. At least that's how I interpreted it.

While reading your rebuttal I was able to substitute LLM with loom and arrive at the same conclusions, mourning the loss of the artisan, copying their product for cheaper, etc. So you failed to draw the distinction that is necessary to rebut their point.

The only point you made that seemed on point to me was the first one, "it's not hypocrisy because people do protest looms", which I didn't find convincing.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#459

Post by timbit42 »

Sharlin wrote: post #6
aucisson_masque wrote: post #5

If it's so bad, people won't use it. If it's good, why be against it ? You don't write post to reach the biggest amount of people, you do because you're passionate and ultimately you get people following you. If average Joe doesn't go on your website, what's the big deal ? I think this feature will be very useful to fight back on the optimized SEO hell that we currently have.

"If Nestle were so bad, people wouldn't buy their products."

There are a lot of uninformed consumers who are buying/using things they might not if they were informed.

Re: Google Declaring War on the Web

#460

Post by JohnBooty »

casualgaming226 wrote: post #214
JohnBooty wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dichotomy is so false. However else you feel, AI is a force multiplier, and that can also REALLY benefit "Artisanal work + Small Business" I feel like the "one person app creator" business is so much more viable than it has been since Web 1.0 Five years ago, to run your own solo business in this space, you had to know most of the following: taxes, legal, backend, frontend, devops, iOS dev, Android dev, and marke…

> However else you feel, AI is a force multiplier, and that can also REALLY benefit "Artisanal work + Small Business" > Five years ago, to run your own solo business in this space, you had to know most of the following: taxes, legal, backend, frontend, devops, iOS dev, Android dev, and marketing and then pay through the nose for most of the ones you didn't. AI helps to paper over a LOT of those gaps... and you can sp…

You'll surely understand if you ever take the plunge and run your own business.

You're going to have to spend quite a bit of time and/or money doing things unrelated to the actual product and CX.

Taxes, marketing, etc. The more you can streamline those other bits, the more time and energy you can spend actually improving the thing you are offering.

Again, maybe it's the kind of thing where you need to run a business, or at least talk to a business owner to understand.

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