Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment • Hacker News Board

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#451

Post by dalben » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:09 PM UTC

OptionOfT wrote: post #368

mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

What about authentication? I remember living in Belgium this was the case, and I always had to go and find that stupid physical barcode reader that I then had to hold against the screen, sign in with my debit card, PIN, enter the Euro amount, and then sign the transaction. Now that I live in the USA, I have my credit card number in Bitwarden, with expiration date and CVC. When I want to buy something, I let it autofi…

The physical barcode reader is long gone in Belgium. Instead, you scan the QR code with your banking app (or on mobile, click a link to open the banking app), and either verify directly for amounts under €250 (?), or verify big amounts with ItsMe, another app, using Face ID.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#452

Post by Nerwesta » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

surgical_fire wrote: post #348

Filligree wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say West is Europe, Japan and a few others. But I think I need a new word for that one.

Ehh, I live in Europe. Moving forward I don't think it makes sense to bundle it with the US, who is like the biggest threat to the EU, considering the past few years.

That was said exactly when that guy first came years ago. I'll bet my money ( via Wero or not ) the whole movement will be shattered by an " European-friendly " governement. Perhaps private companies will still retain a bad sentiment, who knows, everything else will be business as usual.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#453

Post by throwaway2037 » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

Somewhat tangential: With advent of LLMs that are very good at translating European languages into English, I think it is great that people are submitting non-English content. I support it 100%. I hope that we see more of it. It will help to expand our "HN Universe" to include more languages and content.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#454

Post by lccerina » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

gpvos wrote: post #433

Wero is for internet payments, but Visa and Mastercard are still involved for card payments. I just got a new-style Dutch debit card and it has a Mastercard logo on it; Visa cards are also still being given out.

The idea is that merchants will ditch the card-pos in the long run. You scan a QR-code or send money through some app. Satispay does that in Italy and got massive rollout from stores because fees were pretty low also for smaller transfers, so no more "sorry, at least 5 euros to pay with card"

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#455

Post by bsimpson » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

madspindel wrote: post #177

bsimpson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was weird to see them bragging about €6MM volume in the first year.

That number must be wrong? Swish volume during one month was €4759MM as comparison.

> The EuroPA alliance, which has already connected Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Andorra since March 2025, serves as a prototype. Six million euros have passed through it in one year, without any particular promotional campaign.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#456

Post by ErneX » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:11 PM UTC

jorisw wrote: post #435

SirMaster wrote: post #192

But does this act like a debit account? What I like about a credit card are things like you are buying on credit, not using money in your account directly. So in the case of fraud or issue a chargeback it's been much easier to get credit card transactions reverted rather than get money put back into my debit account. Also I like credit cards for the rewards, cash back or especially travel points. But also things like…

This is where American and European mindsets differ vastly. We spend what we have. Our spending is directly reflected in one’s balance. We’re insensitive to rewards for spending money.

This is spot on. I consider myself an outlier, but only since not long ago. I’ve been using a credit card for everything but only because it gets me points I can exchange for miles on some airlines or exchange for gift cards.

I wish the “old school” banks here were more competitive in this regard.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#457

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:11 PM UTC

surgical_fire wrote: post #276

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I trust my government (Switzerland) I do, too. I’m not sure I trust Brussels.

I certainly trust the EU a lot more than I trust US corporations.

Oh, 100%. But the choice here is between European banks and a state-run Pix equivalent.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#458

Post by sandeepkd » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:11 PM UTC

Arrowmaster wrote: post #429

mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

Yesterday I was renewing my vehicle registration through my US states website. They offered a range of payment options using embedded options on the site. The direct bank account option had the lowest fee but when I tried it I was immediately scared of the security. They used a 3rd party bank account transfer provider that asked me what bank I used and looked like it was going to prompt me for my login info before it…

What you see is a glued or patchwork to make the things work somehow with the existing state of things. Strictly speaking, a lot of banks do not offer API support and yet these third party tools are able to orchestrate a flow with is nothing less than man-in-the-middle-attack.

The change if it happens at all, across the board to streamline can only from from government mandate. The industry is always going to go for finding some low cost option to achieve the target. The private players are always going to optimize for short term gains.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#459

Post by dismalaf » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

rozap wrote: post #337

sschueller wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust my government (Switzerland) way more to do the thing that is right for the people and the law then some private company that has the primary goal of making money. It doesn't mean that governments don't make mistakes but the primary goal is to serve its people. That is what government is for in a functioning democracy. A functioning government is of the people for the people.

[flagged]

It's a joke but Visa and Mastercard are American corporations so Americans can feel relatively secure using them. If you live in another developed country, relying on the whims of American entities feels less secure than something subject to the laws of your own country.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#460

Post by jeroenhd » Wed, May 20, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

underlipton wrote: post #206

jeroenhd wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wero is run by the banks themselves, which are in turn controlled/restricted by the central bank. I don't think there's a meaningful difference on that front. The European ECB isn't really in a position to directly offer services to people, and relying on every country's central banks to cooperate will take decades.

The central bank is governed by a direct mandate from the government (and, effectively, the entire population, when dealing with a democracy). Commercial and investment banks are beholden to their board and shareholders. There's a clear conflict of interest in trying to dump a service that should be available to everyone onto a business with narrower concerns.

I have been using iDeal for many years now and have yet to see any of the downsides of it being a product of a commercial bank.

Perhaps it's a difference in banking culture between different countries; I would certainly not put the same trust and faith in a Wero alternative set up by American banks, that's for sure.

Banks are beholden to policy from the central bank and financial authorities. Payment fees are capped, payment processing terms aren't a free-for all, and the power of individual banks is kept in check. The people doe have a voice in all of this, just not in the direct implementation process.