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Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

arstechnica.com

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Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#451

Post by UltraSane »

czhu12 wrote: post #337
scottlamb wrote: post #39

> [Opexus] said that “the individuals responsible for hiring the twins are no longer employed by Opexus.” Getting close to the classic Monty Python line: "Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked." Jokes aside, stuff like this sucks because I suspect many employers will take from it the most extreme, dehumanizing lessons, e.g.: (a) make firings [edit: including lay-offs] as…

the problem is that its so challenging to figure out what the person actually has access to. Have they ever done a export with sensitive information, that is now sitting on their local machine? Any important clients they still are in contact with over email that they may try to sabotage? Any other creative endeavors you haven't thought through? The most fool proof way is just to nuke the computer in its entirety.

I once worked at a company where one Active Directory server was storing all passwords in plain text. Just think of the havoc someone could do with a dump of that.

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#452

Post by suburban_strike »

imtringued wrote: post #360
suburban_strike wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not theater, it's defense against aggrievement. Termination is a traumatic event that threatens your ability to exist or provide for dependents. People [rightfully] don't handle exile well. Someone with an interest in scuttling your company could just as easily maintain a low profile and do it at any time. Termination forces execution into a more-predictable timeframe. Once notified, the malevolent only have opp…

Ok but with the European laws the incentive to do something at the last minute doesn't really exist. This seems like a self inflicted problem where the solution to the problem also made the problem worse when it happens. If you know that you have X months of pay if you behave, then why misbehave? You'll lose out on money and get a criminal record. Meanwhile if the employer wants you gone it's free money. Everyone is…

> with the European laws the incentive to do something at the last minute doesn't really exist.

Sibling comment correctly points out that misbehavior would follow a different termination path, but I don't actually know what it is since I've never seen a European employee successfully fired. We normally just lay off problem employees and follow the same offboarding procedure for everyone. This does present its own retroactive abuses of the PIP process.

> If you know that you have X months of pay if you behave, then why misbehave?

Ageism is real. For those expecting to retire from a company in Y years, seeing expected future income reduced to X months is catastrophic since there's no guarantee they will ever continue their career in any capacity yet expect to live beyond X months. The inhumanity comes from realizing how insignificant you were to the grand scheme of things, and how easily you are discarded and forgotten.

Only the younger crowd thinks the way you do, where there's always more time to find another job. They can afford to be rational. For the rest this will be the last job they ever have; it is an indignified and humiliating end to a career they spent decades building. Revenge is easily rationalized.

Employment is modern slavery. Few earn enough to have meaningful agency over their lives.

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#453

Post by cubefox »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #446
cubefox wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also changes nothing about being true or justified. If it's "gross" according to your definition/taste that doesn't mean it's false or unjustified.

It also changes nothing about being gross. If it's "true" or "justified" according to your opinion/taste that doesn't mean it's not gross.

Whether something is true or justified is not a matter of taste.

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#454

Post by AngryData »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #431
logicchains wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately enough Americans have enough guns that no matter how much people like you whine about it you'll never be able to take them away.

Yes, because if the American army went rogue I'm sure a bunch of untrained goons cosplaying as John Wick will be able to take them with some assault rifles and pistols. A very important freedom indeed.

Afganistan caused the US plenty of problems with 70 year old bolt actions and at best 1 gun per 16 people and a tiny fraction of the population fighting. Claiming the US population couldn't successfully work as an insurgency against its military is naive, especially when they have direct access to US logistics and economy.

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#455

Post by pretzel5297 »

AngryData wrote: post #454
pretzel5297 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because if the American army went rogue I'm sure a bunch of untrained goons cosplaying as John Wick will be able to take them with some assault rifles and pistols. A very important freedom indeed.

Afganistan caused the US plenty of problems with 70 year old bolt actions and at best 1 gun per 16 people and a tiny fraction of the population fighting. Claiming the US population couldn't successfully work as an insurgency against its military is naive, especially when they have direct access to US logistics and economy.

Americans are getting executed on the streets, ran by corrupt pedophiles, and their taxes are being funneled to the rich in the open. Where's the insurgency?

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#456

Post by AngryData »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #455
AngryData wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afganistan caused the US plenty of problems with 70 year old bolt actions and at best 1 gun per 16 people and a tiny fraction of the population fighting. Claiming the US population couldn't successfully work as an insurgency against its military is naive, especially when they have direct access to US logistics and economy.

Americans are getting executed on the streets, ran by corrupt pedophiles, and their taxes are being funneled to the rich in the open. Where's the insurgency?

So is your problem with people having guns is they aren't reactionary enough or shooting at police or military yet? If that was happening im pretty sure most people right now would be screaming about terrorists shooting at cops and politicians more than they would be joining up with the insurgency.

Bullets flying is a last resort and you should be thankful for that, not bemoaning it.

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#457

Post by pretzel5297 »

AngryData wrote: post #456
pretzel5297 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are getting executed on the streets, ran by corrupt pedophiles, and their taxes are being funneled to the rich in the open. Where's the insurgency?

So is your problem with people having guns is they aren't reactionary enough or shooting at police or military yet? If that was happening im pretty sure most people right now would be screaming about terrorists shooting at cops and politicians more than they would be joining up with the insurgency. Bullets flying is a last resort and you should be thankful for that, not bemoaning it.

"We have the guns to keep the state in check but we won't actually do that because that's bad so instead lets keep shooting each other and show off our cool guns".

I am not advocating for an insurgency. I am pointing out that it won't happen because that's not why gun owners own guns. Despite the claims of noble ideals.

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#458

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

cubefox wrote: post #453
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also changes nothing about being gross. If it's "true" or "justified" according to your opinion/taste that doesn't mean it's not gross.

Whether something is true or justified is not a matter of taste.

Whether racism is "justified" is not determined by a random internet person claiming it is, based solely on their personal taste.

Also it is gross, and not allowed here on HN, because the consensus is that it is gross, even if you personally disagree (which is of course allowed).

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#459

Post by joe_mamba »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #432
joe_mamba wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They couldn't find anything for her to do? Hard to believe, If a person's now disabled, what can a company give them to do profitably, that isn't already optimized, automated or offshored? There's plenty of civil servants whose jobs are just moving one paper from one room to the next, just to keep more useless people employed that nobody would hire in the private sector. But this doesn't really exist as much in the…

I don't think they offshored the entire office, but if they did they'd probably be able to fire her at that point. If I found the right article, the disability is epilepsy and paralysis on one side. Which mean she can do pretty much any office job fine. She already was doing office work, so the disability should not have changed things all that much. I'm sure she typed slower, but that can be worked around and mitiga…

>Which mean she can do pretty much any office job fine.

Honestly, I doubt it. If you show up to an interview of "any office job" with "epilepsy and paralysis on one side" nobody will hire you simply because you won't be as productive as those without such disabilities.

Also, "epilepsy and paralysis on one side" is the legal medical diagnosis, but in practice the impact can be much greater, especially with age, which is why ageism is a thing even among people who are legally in full health because in practice your body isn't the same like when you were 19-25.

Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired

#460

Post by Dylan16807 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #459
Dylan16807 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they offshored the entire office, but if they did they'd probably be able to fire her at that point. If I found the right article, the disability is epilepsy and paralysis on one side. Which mean she can do pretty much any office job fine. She already was doing office work, so the disability should not have changed things all that much. I'm sure she typed slower, but that can be worked around and mitiga…

>Which mean she can do pretty much any office job fine. Honestly, I doubt it. If you show up to an interview of "any office job" with "epilepsy and paralysis on one side" nobody will hire you simply because you won't be as productive as those without such disabilities. Also, "epilepsy and paralysis on one side" is the legal medical diagnosis, but in practice the impact can be much greater, especially with age, which…

But given that they already hired her, if she's going at 30-90% speed depending on task then it should be very easy to keep giving her tasks. And she can practice things like one-handed typing to improve the average.

She doesn't need the equivalent of "moving paper from one room to the next". She lost some number of dollars per hour worth of productivity, but it sounds like she was still capable of being reasonably productive.

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