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Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

ecopv-eu.com

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Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#451

Post by infecto »

danaw wrote: post #381
drstewart wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bar clearly won't be "any random person's phone meeting this criteria", so what your specific phone does doesn't really matter.

many others in the comments have this same issue (and the internet at large). my point is just that it's not obvious that apple has met this claim with real world devices. it will be seen how the actual requirements will be validated, likely in a way that favors the "best case" scenario for apple.

Doubtful if only because that would fall under warranty then. There is a financial incentive for that to not happen. I imagine this is a situation where the complaints seem a lot more frequent because it’s a complaint. The mass of phones that don’t have an issue will not show up in public forum data.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#452

Post by arendtio »

jorams wrote: post #368
protimewaster wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time this was discussed, it was stated that the text exempting based on cycle counts was removed from the final, adopted version. Is that incorrect?

The batteries regulation[1] doesn't contain such an exemption. The legal argument that iPhones may be exempt goes like this: - The batteries regulation is a general regulation and article 11 specifically says the following: > This paragraph shall be without prejudice to any specific provisions ensuring a higher level of protection of the environment and human health relating to the removability and replaceability of…

But what exactly is a charge cycle? I mean, the effect on a battery being loaded from 0% to 100% and drained to 0% again is vastly different from a battery being charged from 40% to 50% and being used until 40% ten times in a row.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#453

Post by rootusrootus »

GuB-42 wrote: post #249
kaiwn wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 mm thicker and 58 grams heavier than the latest iPhone.

It is also a rugged phone. So if you want to make a fair comparison with an iPhone, you have to put the iPhone in a case, resulting in a similar weight and thickness.

The distinction, though, is that you get to make that choice as the consumer. You can carry the phone with no case, or you can put a very rugged case on it, or something in between.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#454

Post by wmf »

josefx wrote: post #450
wmf wrote: post #7

There's an exception for batteries that "retain at least 80% of its original capacity after 1,000 charge cycles." Coincidentally, iPhones and probably other flagships already qualify for this exception.

Didn't Apple once ship a patch to limit CPU performance on iPhones because battery degradation was a widespread issue?

Yes, but batterygate was about degradation of the battery current not capacity. Apple officially acknowledges that battery degradation exists; the only question is whether it's better or worse than 80%.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#455

Post by vel0city »

david422 wrote: post #397
vel0city wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a Pixel 6a last year bought not too long after it came out. I left it on a patio table. I was hosing things off and there was a significant amount of over spray on to the table. The screen died over the course of a couple of hours due to water ingreess.

I just put my Pixel 10 through the washing machine by accident. To my surprise, it was perfectly fine.

I definitely don't mean to call into question Pixel device robustness overall into question. I'm just trying to point out even well glued phones eventually develop weaknesses to their seams. And this was a device I routinely washed iin the sink to clean, it really caught me off guard when it failed.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#456

Post by SoftTalker »

arendtio wrote: post #452
jorams wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The batteries regulation[1] doesn't contain such an exemption. The legal argument that iPhones may be exempt goes like this: - The batteries regulation is a general regulation and article 11 specifically says the following: > This paragraph shall be without prejudice to any specific provisions ensuring a higher level of protection of the environment and human health relating to the removability and replaceability of…

But what exactly is a charge cycle? I mean, the effect on a battery being loaded from 0% to 100% and drained to 0% again is vastly different from a battery being charged from 40% to 50% and being used until 40% ten times in a row.

And how many people have the free mental space to manage the charge capacity of their phone?

I plug mine into the charger when I go to bed, and unplug it in the morning when I start my day. I don't have time to think about phone charge levels much beyond that.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#457

Post by 654wak654 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #438

Can I play devil's advocate for a moment? Imagine that Apple decides to protest this new rule. They say: We will stop stelling iPhones in the EU. However, you can buy from non-EU countries (US, Canada, AUS/NZ, UK, etc.), and we will ship to you, or you can use a third party shipper. I know, I know, HN crowd loves to play legal games like this ("this one weird trick...") -- they rarely work in the Real World. Real leg…

Possible EU tariffs on electronics could have some effect.

IMO Nothing legal would need to be done. I think practical reasons like shipping time, shipping cost, and the annoyance of using a phone from one region with telecoms in another region would drastically reduce sales. Also you're not going to get 1st party support and that effects Apple devices more than others.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#458

Post by dlisboa »

alt227 wrote: post #326
Aurornis wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not just about battery replacement. I used to keep several fully charged batteries stocked in my rucksack whenever I went hiking or anywhere else that was remote. There are several high end phones with removable batteries. You should buy one of them if this feature is important to you. This movement to force everyone's phones to pay the costs of removable batteries to address these really niche use cases is…

> he costs of removable batteries to address these really niche use cases You seem to have completely missed the primary point of all this, which is to reducew ewaste. That fact that it also satisfies some niche uses cases is a great bonus!

External battery banks are a better reducer of e-waste as they'll work for all devices and not just the one cell phone.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#459

Post by scottbez1 »

giantrobot wrote: post #284
alt227 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes exactly my point, I dont want to wait to charge up my device with another device. I just want to pop in a fresh 100% battery. It used to be so simple.

There's tons of MagSafe battery packs for iPhones. They charge the phone continuously. There's no need to let the phone drop to zero before attaching the battery pack. There's also cases with integral batteries. I assume there's Android equivalents for various phones. I'd say these are more convenient than extra swappable batteries. They have integral charge controllers and charge via USB. There's no need to charge t…

They’re incredibly wasteful due to inefficient power transfer which is a huge issue with wireless charging.

And it’s not just wireless that’s inefficient; with a usb connection you’ll typically lose at least 15% in a good buck/boost stage and there’s 2 involved in a usb battery pack: one in the battery pack itself to step up/down from pack voltage to the negotiated PD voltage, and then another lossy stage in the phone stepping down to 3.7v.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#460

Post by Dylan16807 »

Aurornis wrote: post #338
ratiolat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP68, replaceable battery, phone jack, 5G: https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover6_pro-11600.php

And all of the commenters complaining they would never buy this phone is great proof that the removable battery movement is DOA. These phones exist. Companies have been producing them intermittently. When they do, few people buy them and there are always complaints that it's too big, too ugly, not fast enough, or something else. The vocal minority demanding this feature but refusing to buy phones with the feature bel…

Well, I want a phone that's about one tier below flagship and has certain features. I don't think that's unreasonable.

For comparison: The feature I look for the most is a microsd slot. The last time that option existed that was in the quality range I want, I bought it. For anyone buying a phone right now, samsung has dropped microsd support from multiple more tiers, google and apple have never offered it, motorola and some others have the physical hardware but won't properly update the phone...

That's a feature that has been demonstrated to have no meaningful downsides, and manufacturers won't put it in to good models. I'm not convinced batteries are very different. People's refusal to make huge unnecessary compromises doesn't prove any features are DOA. I can guarantee that the above phone using LCD instead of OLED isn't a compromise for the battery's sake.

The biggest downside of removable batteries is that it's not an option on good phones. There might be some solid physics-based reasons, unlike with microsd, but I'm skeptical.

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