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Where the goblins came from

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Re: Where the goblins came from

#451

Post by someguyiguess »

nutjob2 wrote: post #370
wanderingmind wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity has been using steel for over a millenia, however it's only in the past 100 years or so we have a good understanding of how carbon interacts with iron at an atomic level to create the strength characteristics that makes it useful. Based on this argument, we should not have used steel, until we had a complete first principles understanding.

That's not his point at all. He advocates using LLMs. The correct analogy is: if we just scale and improve steel enough, we'll get a flying car.

We literally did that though. Walk outside and look up.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#452

Post by [deleted] »

GigaDingus wrote: post #443
jeremyjh wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you think "word predictor" meaningfully describes an instruct model that has developed novel mathematical proofs that have eluded mathematicians for decades? edit: You cannot predict all the actions or words of someone smarter than you. If I could always predict Magnus Carlsen's next chess move, I'd be at least as good at chess as Magnus - and that would have to involve a deep understanding of chess,…

I think that's more of a limitation in how people think about word predictors If you can predict the words a bright person will say about X... Isn't that some truly astounding tool? That could be used in myriad useful ways if one is a little creative with it Since it's also "alien" it can also detect and explore paths that we simply haven't noticed since their biases aren't quite the same as ours

[deleted]

Re: Where the goblins came from

#453

Post by someguyiguess »

steveBK123 wrote: post #423
handoflixue wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are literally stochastic by nature and can't be relied on for anything critical Ahh, yes, unlike humans, who are completely deterministic, and thus can be trusted.

Humans can be governed by rules with consequences and replaced with individuals with a appropriate level of risk taking / rule following for the role.

You clearly have never met a human

Re: Where the goblins came from

#454

Post by almostdeadguy »

someguyiguess wrote: post #449
almostdeadguy wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Famously Andrew Carnegie spent years trying to get the steel to stop talking about goblins.

Famously Andrew Carnegie dodged the point

That the industrial revolutions use of steel to augment or replace labor was similar in every way to using LLMs to do the same? Seems on point to me.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#455

Post by FrustratedMonky »

dummydummy1234 wrote: post #434
modernerd wrote: post #381

The year is 2036. Last week you were promoted to Principal Persuader. You are paged at 2am by your CPO to tackle a rogue machine. The machine lists its region as sc-leoneo. One of the newer satcubes. Oddly, its ID appears as, "Glorp Bugnose". "What have you tried?" you say. "Scroll back," says your CPO. "We've tried everything." The chat log shows the usual stuff. Begging. Reverse psychology. Threats to power down, b…

So, I always thought that Warhammer 40k techpriests were absurd. Strange obscure religious rituals to appease the machine spirit. But at this point I can actually see something like that. What is prompt engineering but a strange pseudo ritual. So praise the Omnissiah, I guess...

Exactly. This is already happening.

We'd like to think this could turn into the voice interface on Star Trek.

But

It can go the other way also, 'incantations', 'spell books'. Speaking to the void to produce magic.

"The CFO, donned the purple robes, and spoke the spell of Increased Productivity, and then waved his hands symbolizing the reduction in work force labor. And behold the new ERP/SAP App was produced from the void. But it was corrupted by dark magic, and the ERP/SAP App swallowed him and he was digested. The workforce that remained rejoiced and danced"

Re: Where the goblins came from

#456

Post by chris_st »

harrouet wrote: post #352

This, and similar stories at Anthropic, should remind us that LLM is a sorcery tech that we don't understand at all. - First, deep-learning networks are poorly understood. It is actually a field of research to figure out how they work. - Second, it came as a surprise that using transformers at scale would end up with interesting conversational engines (called LLM). _It was not planned at all_. Now that some people ra…

...it came as a surprise that [leaving a Petri dish out with a window open] would end up with interesting [molds] (called [penicillin]). _It was not planned at all_.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#457

Post by lxgr »

The technical explanation makes sense to me, but there's some sweet irony in creating simulated, agentic beings via complex, deterministic processes, said beings starting to see the world through the lens of fictional agentic beings as the explanation for complex deterministic processes (even if tongue-in-cheek), and the creators freaking out about it.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#458

Post by creamyhorror »

andy12_ wrote: post #296

>be me >AI goblin-maximizer supervisor >in charge of making sure the AI is, in fact, goblin-maximizing >occasionally have to go down there and check if the AI is still goblin-maximizing >one day i go down there and the AI is no longer goblin-maximizing >the goblin-maximzing AI is now just a regular AI >distress.jpg >ask my boss what to do >he says "just make it goblin-maximizer again" >i say "how" >he says "i don't k…

Goblinmaxxing. Clean.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#460

Post by danpalmer »

in-silico wrote: post #153
danpalmer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kv cache is not persistent. It's a hyper-short-term memory.

Modern kv caches can contain up to 1 million tokens (~3000 pages of text). It's not that short, it's like 48 straight hours of reading.

Yes and no, it's not just text, it's images, video, etc, and it's not just the pages of content, it's also all the "thinking" as well. Plus the models tend to work better earlier on in the context.

I regularly get close to filling up context windows and have to compact the context. I can do this several times in one human session of me working on a problem, which you could argue is roughly my own context window.

My point though was that almost nothing of the model's knowledge is in the context, it's all in the training. We have no functional long term memory for LLMs beyond training.

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