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Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

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Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#451

Post by coliveira »

thephyber wrote: post #363
runarberg wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don‘t think it really matters how much people supported these extreme actions. This policy was clearly wrong. The general public mounted a much more significant opposition against this policy then the Democratic party did. Some members of the Democratic party did some opposition, but the party as a whole clearly did not oppose this, and therefor it was never truly on the ballots. To be clear, I personally don‘t thi…

> I don‘t think it really matters how much people supported these extreme actions. This policy was clearly wrong. This is wrong and ignorant of how we select elected representatives. They have no incentive to do “what is right” and all of the incentives to do “what is popular”. The representatives who stood up against the Patriot Act, the surveillance state, “you’re either with us or either the terrorists”, etc were…

If politicians did what was popular, the USA would have a public health system a long time ago. They just pretend and do things they're paid to support, that's it.

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#452

Post by wolvoleo »

the__alchemist wrote: post #10

This breakdown in rule of law is unfortunate. Ideally, this would be handled by, in order of desirability: - Flock decision-makers and customers holding ethics as a priority, and not taking the actions they are due to sense of duty, community, morals etc - Peer pressure resulting in ostracization of Flock execs and decision makers until they stop the unethical behavior - Governments using legislation and law enforcem…

If I were American I don't think the above mechanism would have any chance of still working to be honest.

And I don't think respecting the law still matters when the lawmakers are so evil.

I applaud the people destroying these cameras. It's not violence against people, it's just property.

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#453

Post by wolvoleo »

everforward wrote: post #344
mywittyname wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What has worried me for years is that Americans would not resort to this level. They'll stop once the police (or ICE, more likely) start dishing out horrific punishments for it.

That would be an incredibly risky escalation, and it would be a stupid ultimatum to issue. The people, or even states, could escalate in response. The worst case is escalating to violence; ICE isn’t trained, equipped, or numerous to deal with deploying into a violently hostile area. The army could, but then we’re in full blown civil war. A more realistic middle ground is that it pushes people or states into nonviolen…

ICE isn't trained for anything, they're just proud boys in tacticool gear. But the point of them is not to be effective, it's to cause headlines.

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#454

Post by someguyornotidk »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #440
bob1029 wrote: post #332

Ring doorbells and ALPRs are a meme compared to what we've already deployed domestically. I've seen the Houston police department fly wide area surveillance aircraft all day over certain parts of town. The capabilities of some of these systems are almost unbelievable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide-area_motion_imagery I strongly recommend not breaking the law until you've fully considered the omniscient demigod t…

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARGUS-IS https://www.extremetech.com/defense/146909-darpa-shows-off-1... Tech deployed to distant lands will eventually be turned on the empire's own.

This, honestly. I used to get so angry when the US subjected foreigners to treatment that no human with morals would consider, but then I noticed that, without fail, almost every thing the US did to foreigners gets done to US citizens eventually, either by foreign governments or by the US government itself. The only thing that I haven't seen yet are drone killings on US soil, but I suspect that too is only a matter of time.

Like it or not, we're all stuck on the same boat. Normalizing the abuse and mistreatment of some parts of the world means normalizing it for everyone.

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#455

Post by temp8830 »

netsharc wrote: post #417
llbeansandrice wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People largely weren't on their deathbeds with covid claiming it was a hoax There were actually lots of people doing exactly this. Perhaps "largely" is the key word here but there were plenty of people dying of covid and refusing ventilators because they believed it was a conspiracy theory.

Apparently the virus was able to ruin cognitive function that people struggling to breathe thought they're fine. (Ok, it seems too convenient that the virus can do this...).

Nobody (OK, maybe a few very special people) is saying that COVID was a hoax. What is true - and one wasn't allowed to say - was that the measures intended to prevent COVID weren't very effective and did more harm than good.

Ah yes you say, another psycho. He probably eats ivermectin for breakfast and chases it with bleach. But I ask you, after a chlorinated burp: how come Africa didn't die out? Why was the death rate pretty much the same in Florida and California? Did the EU really need to buy enough vaccine for ten-plus years?

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#456

Post by rudolftheone »

mothballed wrote: post #117
psadauskas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting doesn't work as well when there's billions of dollars being spent to influence the votes to make billionaires richer, while the working class that could vote against it is too busy working 3 part time jobs just to survive.

This is why I'm in favor of sortition instead of voting. The majority of random people don't have combination of desire, corruption, sophistication, and political experience to pull off this kind of bribery. Virtually every elected politician does. ~Everything about the election process selects for the worst kinds of people.

That's super-interesting experiment, but I wouldn't start it in such a large country as USA. Why won't humanity test it on a smaller scale?

In Belgium (Ostbelgien) the German-speaking community has a permanent sortition-based Citizens’ Council wired into the parliamentary process; In Ireland they've already run national, randomly selected Citizens’ Assemblies on high-stakes constitutional topics.

These are basically production prototypes - maybe we should ask ourselves why they don't push it further?

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#457

Post by netsharc »

temp8830 wrote: post #455
netsharc wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the virus was able to ruin cognitive function that people struggling to breathe thought they're fine. (Ok, it seems too convenient that the virus can do this...).

Nobody (OK, maybe a few very special people) is saying that COVID was a hoax. What is true - and one wasn't allowed to say - was that the measures intended to prevent COVID weren't very effective and did more harm than good. Ah yes you say, another psycho. He probably eats ivermectin for breakfast and chases it with bleach. But I ask you, after a chlorinated burp: how come Africa didn't die out? Why was the death rat…

> What is true - and one wasn't allowed to say - was that the measures intended to prevent COVID weren't very effective and did more harm than good.

But yet here you are saying it. Whether it's true or not probably requires a great deal of analysis, but your self-applied "psycho" label may be accurate enough if you've managed to apply lots of cognitive biases to end up with your "truth".

I'd agree the governments overreacted in many sense, but a non BoJo/Trump-government has a duty to be overcautious rather than a flippant attitude of "So what, x% dead is acceptable". Some other rules are based on dumb science: two meters distance from each other is probably a joke, a compromise between "keep everyone at home!" (what China did when there was a breakout) and a "Keep going to the pubs!", my own theory is that if you could smell someone's cigarette smoke from 2 meters away, virus particles being exhaled from their lungs would reach you too. Later we figured out getting the virus from surfaces is very unlikely, but people were still wiping surfaces down anyway...

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#458

Post by johnnyanmac »

ABCLAW wrote: post #351
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. You can escape a disease, even during a global pandemic. And not every person that got COVID was on a ventilator or even felt that bad. Seeing the death toll statistics and even the direct effects through a screen is not visceral for many folks. Starvation isn't avoidable and you can't ride it out. There isn't any chance that starving to death could be less severe than getting a bad flu. Nobody can avoid…

>I disagree. You can escape a disease, even during a global pandemic. And not every person that got COVID was on a ventilator or even felt that bad. Propaganda works. The knowledge worker class often believes their training will afford them some level of protection against it. Even then, with those warding effects, they're still susceptible. Consider further that most people in society are significantly less educated…

>Propaganda won't contest that starvation is occurring. It will claim that the reason for the starvation is a specific foe, internal or external e.g. It's China's fault we're starving or the immigrants have caused this food security crisis and once they're gone we'll have enough food for our own people, etc. They'll workshop and see which ones poll well, then run with the talking point that seems to perform best.

I don't know if China will work. It's not halfway around the world, but that's the mentality many people have of it. They won't buy that a country on the other side if taking food from their local grocery store.

But it doesn't matter. they blame it on: everyone gets hurt. People fighting on the streets, charital servings overran, private businesses raided, governmental buildings having doors banged on (assuming the soldiers don't simply desert their duties). Then that escalates to riots and perhaps small skirmishes for remaining resources.

When you're truly hungry, nothing is beyond reproach. And I don't think America has a true famine to point to as an example. That's pretty much why it's the one thing all politicians will avoid at all cost. a famine will make a depression seem like a cloudy day.

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#459

Post by johnnyanmac »

temp8830 wrote: post #455
netsharc wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the virus was able to ruin cognitive function that people struggling to breathe thought they're fine. (Ok, it seems too convenient that the virus can do this...).

Nobody (OK, maybe a few very special people) is saying that COVID was a hoax. What is true - and one wasn't allowed to say - was that the measures intended to prevent COVID weren't very effective and did more harm than good. Ah yes you say, another psycho. He probably eats ivermectin for breakfast and chases it with bleach. But I ask you, after a chlorinated burp: how come Africa didn't die out? Why was the death rat…

>how come Africa didn't die out?

Because it's an airborne virus and Africa isn't 1) as connected with the world to begin with and 2) as closely concentrated as urban areas. That's before really looking into Africa's response compared to other countries.

>Why was the death rate pretty much the same in Florida and California?

Because we didn't isolate fast enough between Trump trying to claim it being a hoax early on and desperate political attempts to keep "essential workers" running business. The locality doesn't matter for an airorne virus; just that people continue to go outside and not develop herd immunity.

>Did the EU really need to buy enough vaccine for ten-plus years?

I don't have a crystal ball into 2030. But yes, people still can catch COVID in 2026. Buying only enough for 2020-2022 would be reckless.

Any other questions?

Re: Americans are destroying Flock surveillance cameras

#460

Post by johnnyanmac »

netsharc wrote: post #457
temp8830 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody (OK, maybe a few very special people) is saying that COVID was a hoax. What is true - and one wasn't allowed to say - was that the measures intended to prevent COVID weren't very effective and did more harm than good. Ah yes you say, another psycho. He probably eats ivermectin for breakfast and chases it with bleach. But I ask you, after a chlorinated burp: how come Africa didn't die out? Why was the death rat…

> What is true - and one wasn't allowed to say - was that the measures intended to prevent COVID weren't very effective and did more harm than good. But yet here you are saying it. Whether it's true or not probably requires a great deal of analysis, but your self-applied "psycho" label may be accurate enough if you've managed to apply lots of cognitive biases to end up with your "truth". I'd agree the governments ove…

>Later we figured out getting the virus from surfaces is very unlikely, but people were still wiping surfaces down anyway...

I'd say that's still a good thing. Surfaces can get so dirty, so I'm glad COVID made people more aware of properly clearning their surfaces.

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