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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#451

Post by elitistphoenix »

jaza wrote: post #414
ipdashc wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

My main bank is Commonwealth aka CBA (one of the "big 4" banks here in Australia). For a long time, I held out against installing their mobile app (on Android), and managed fine with their web UI (and with 2FA codes via SMS). Then, 2 or 3 years ago, I needed to start using PayID (sort-of Australia's version of Venmo, ie free instant transfers, except it's supported directly by all the major banks here). And I discove…

I paid someone via payid via the web ui. Was via an email address. It was a while ago though and haven't used it since. Also I've never used the app since the blocked rooted devices, magisk stopped working (cause of safetnet) and moved back to sms "security". I just logged in then without having to enter a code. I do note you need to allow browser fingerprinting to allow the login to work. Otherwise it's some generic error.

I've made a lot of noise about it so maybe they've "unblocked" me to shut me up. Email the CEO so it registers a complaint. Make some noise. Definitely have another bank though as you can't just depend on one.

Re: Keep Android Open

#452

Post by WhyNotHugo »

ipdashc wrote: post #317
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

Sounds like you’re using Venmo to fill the same role as a banking app (sending and receiving bank transfers).

Many other countries simply rely on banking apps for these things, and don’t have a separate service for this kind of transaction.

Here in NL many banks (not all) require their iOS or Google app to log into their home banking on a PC/browser.

Re: Keep Android Open

#453

Post by snerbles »

freakynit wrote: post #446
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

Why does there seem to be a growing push to tie real-world identity to nearly everything we do online? The justification is almost always "safety". I know this trend has been developing for years, but over the past couple of years it feels like it's accelerated globally.

Online anonymity makes it harder for TPTB to punish dissidents.

Re: Keep Android Open

#454

Post by JoshTriplett »

kelvinjps10 wrote: post #433
EvanAnderson wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want a "phone", i.e., small form factor computer, that can run something like NetBSD, or Linux. But I have no intention of using it for commercial transactions. Mobile banking is not why I want to run a non-corporate OS > I want to use it for recreation, research and experimentation I am a firm believer that phones are personal computers and should have all the end user freedom we have come to expect from persona…

Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website meaning also a open computer too

> Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website

No, unfortunately some things can't be. There are venues that provide tickets exclusively via mobile applications, for instance.

Re: Keep Android Open

#455

Post by torben-friis »

freakynit wrote: post #446
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

Why does there seem to be a growing push to tie real-world identity to nearly everything we do online? The justification is almost always "safety". I know this trend has been developing for years, but over the past couple of years it feels like it's accelerated globally.

I think people in power have realized the impact of misinformation campaigns. And to be fair, western countries have proved to have the resilience of a wet paper bag against foreign influence and private interests.

I honestly can’t imagine a good solution here. A move back to the early 2000s internet would be the ideal middle ground, which requires separating social stuff from informational stuff, and both from engagement algorithms. I have no idea how we’re supposed to put that genie back in the bottle.

And to be clear I’m not saying this as vouching for the current push, I hate it as well.

Re: Keep Android Open

#456

Post by fc417fc802 »

palata wrote: post #232
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desktop OSes and their derivatives are woefully behind in this regard, and unfortunately the will to bring them up to par is incredibly weak. Of those in mass use (Qubes OS is neat but its user base isn’t even a rounding error), macOS probably does the most, but it’s still lagging behind iOS and what’s been implemented has come with much consternation from the technically inclined peanut gallery. I understand some am…

> We really need to get past the 90s-minded paradigm of everything having access to everything else all the time I do agree with that, and I strongly believe that the iOS and Android security model is way ahead of Desktop Linux. But what I observe is that nobody seems to care about the security model. A recurrent complaint I see against anything AOSP-based (including Android) is that people "want to be root".

It's important to keep separate the parts of the security model mobile did well from the parts it got wrong. Declaring that app developers can decline end user access to app files is unacceptable. I get final say on my device. I get to run as root. Hell, I get to run as ring 0 if that's what I want to do.

Re: Keep Android Open

#457

Post by JoshTriplett »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #432
jadbox wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what gov require, but most credit unions do not use such lockdowns

They will.

Credit unions, at least in theory, are known for caring more about their customers. It'd be worth explicitly giving them the feedback that you use them via their website or via an app that works on an Open Source phone, and telling them that that's one reason you're a customer.

Re: Keep Android Open

#458

Post by RankingMember »

cwillu wrote: post #448
Denatonium wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best solution for this is to buy a $30 burner phone at Walmart and use it unactivated, tethered to your main de-Googled device. You can use the burner for only tasks requiring Play Integrity. Make sure to leave one star reviews on all such apps that you run into.

Anything movement that requires people to routinely acquire a second phone is doomed to failure (in the “this will never become a mass movement” sense)

Yeah, it's one thing for a bunch of HN nerds to do it- the masses will not, and the masses are what move the needle.

Re: Keep Android Open

#459

Post by JoshTriplett »

torben-friis wrote: post #455
freakynit wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does there seem to be a growing push to tie real-world identity to nearly everything we do online? The justification is almost always "safety". I know this trend has been developing for years, but over the past couple of years it feels like it's accelerated globally.

I think people in power have realized the impact of misinformation campaigns. And to be fair, western countries have proved to have the resilience of a wet paper bag against foreign influence and private interests. I honestly can’t imagine a good solution here. A move back to the early 2000s internet would be the ideal middle ground, which requires separating social stuff from informational stuff, and both from engag…

> I honestly can’t imagine a good solution here.

"just stop" is a good solution. Stop asking for ID, stop pushing for apps, just stop the general trend towards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification .

Yes, misinformation is a problem. Deanonymization is a bigger problem. If you can't say anything anonymously, it becomes much more difficult to fight entities bigger and more powerful than you.

Re: Keep Android Open

#460

Post by marcosdumay »

ipdashc wrote: post #317
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

> I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why.

It's because Google created this thing during backroom conversations with bank associations from a handful of countries.

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