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I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

jamesdrandall.com

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Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#451

Post by cstever »

jbeninger wrote: post #377
akdev1l wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not worried about being a good dev or not but these AI things thoroughly take away from the thing I enjoy doing to the point I’d consider leaving the industry entirely I don’t want to wrangle LLMs into hallucinating correct things or whatever, I don’t find that enjoyable at all

I've been through a few cycles of using LLMs and my current usage does scratch the itch. It doesn't feel like I've lost anything. The trick is I'm still programming. I name classes and functions. I define the directory structure. I define the algorithms. By the time I'm prompting an LLM I'm describing how the code will look and it becomes a supercharged autocomplete. When I go overboard and just tell it "now I want a…

Serious question: so what then is the value of using an LLM? Just autocomplete? So you can use natural language? I'm seriously asking. My experience has been frustrating. Had the whole thing designed, the LLM gave me diagrams and code samples, had to tell it 3 times to go ahead and write the files, had to convince it that the files didn't exist so it would actually write them. Then when I went to run it, errors ... in the build file ... the one place there should not have been errors. And it couldn't fix those.

Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#452

Post by sincerely »

lelanthran wrote: post #350
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you were a smart dev before AI, chances are you will remain a smart dev with AI. I don't think that's what people are upset about, or at least it's not for me. For me it's that writing code is really enjoyable, and delegating it to AI is hell on earth.

> For me it's that writing code is really enjoyable, and delegating it to AI is hell on earth. It's very sad, for me. Like I told someone recently - letting the LLM write my code for me is like letting the LLM play my video games for me. If all I wanted was the achievement on my steam profile, then sure, it makes sense, but that achievement is not why I play video games. I'm looking at all these people proudly showin…

I've been coping by reminding myself that I was absurdly lucky to have found a job that was also enjoyable and intellectually stimulating for so long, and if all AI does is bring software engineering down to the level of roughly every other job in the world in terms of fun, I don't really have much ground to complain

Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#454

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

pzo wrote: post #450
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #447

So tired of this sort of complaint (and I'm 62). The computing the author enjoyed/enjoys is still out there, they are just looking for it in all the wrong places. Forget about (typical) web development (with its front and backend stacks). Forget about windows and macOS, and probably even mobile (though maybe not). Hobby projects. C++/Rust/C/Go/some-current-Lisp. Maybe even Zig! Unix/Linux. Some sort of hardware inter…

Sure enjoy your retirement. But for me it's annoying some late 50s+ people telling what you just did. Think about people who are in their 20s or 30s - they are not even halfway through their path to retirement and some maybe even still paying out student debt. > Stop whining and start doing stuff you love. You have to understand that it's hard to do stuff that you love when you have to feed your family and pay mortga…

Retired? I'm not retired and likely won't be for another 8 years.

> But for me it's annoying some late 50s+ people telling what you just did.

The author of TFA is at least 50!

> You are just talking from perspective of someone who already paid all debts raised all kids

That part is true. But that was more or less true when I was 50, too.

Finally, the article wasn't about the shitty economic world that we've created for so many people, it was about how programming has changed. Those two are inter-related but they are not the same.

Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#455

Post by marcosdumay »

JeremyNT wrote: post #149
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you were a smart dev before AI, chances are you will remain a smart dev with AI. I don't think that's what people are upset about, or at least it's not for me. For me it's that writing code is really enjoyable, and delegating it to AI is hell on earth.

This is a part of it, but I also feel like a Luddite (the historical meaning, not the derogatory slang). I do use these tools, clearly see their potential, and know full well where this is going: capital is devaluing labor. My skills will become worthless. Maybe GP is right that at first only skilled developers can wield them to full effect, but it's obviously not going to stop there. If I could destroy these things…

> capital is devaluing labor

I guess the right word here is "disenfranchising".

Valuation is a relative thing based mostly of availability. Adding capital makes labor more valuable, not less. This is not the process happening here, and it's not clear what direction the valuation is going.

... even if we take for granted that any of this is really happening.

Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#456

Post by r_lee »

chasd00 wrote: post #328
zero_shift wrote: post #74

I don't disagree that technology is less fun in an AI era. The question is, what other careers are out there for someone who wants to make things? About a decade ago, I went through a career crisis where I couldn't decide what job to do - whether technology was really the best choice for my particular temperament and skills. Law? Too cutthroat. Civil service? Very bureaucratic. Academia? Bad pay. Journalism? An indus…

> who's willing to learn new things. I tell my boys, get good at learning and you don't have to get good at anything else. I think that still holds now as much as ever.

how does that help pay the rent? or how would that get you past resume screening?

Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#457

Post by resonious »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #92
sho_hn wrote: post #14

My advice to everyone feeling existential vertigo over these tools is to remain confident and trust in yourself. If you were a smart dev before AI, chances are you will remain a smart dev with AI. My experience so far is that to a first approximation, the quality of the code/software generated with AI corresponds to the quality of the developer using the AI tool surprisingly well. An inexperienced, bad dev will still…

> If you were a smart dev before AI, chances are you will remain a smart dev with AI. I don't think that's what people are upset about, or at least it's not for me. For me it's that writing code is really enjoyable, and delegating it to AI is hell on earth.

Then don't delegate it to AI.

Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#459

Post by h4kunamata »

Late 30s here, I have seen:

* dial-up being replaced by DSL

* CAT being replaced with fiber for companies

* VOIP replacing bulk BPX

* Cloud replacing on-prem to an extent

* Cloud services plague now called SaaS

* License for life being replaced by subscription

* AI driving everything to shit literally

The technology is no longer helping anything, it is actually tearing our society apart. Up to 2000s, things were indeed evolution, improvements, better life style be it personal or professional. Since 2000s, Enshitification started, everything gets worse, from services, to workflows, to processes, to products, to laws.

Gen-Z does not realize how bad things are, and how we are no longer becoming smarter but dumber, kids cannot even read but have every single social media account.

If they could spend one day back in early 2000s, the current generation would start a civil war in every single city across the globe.

Re: I started programming when I was 7. I'm 50 now and the thing I loved has changed

#460

Post by [deleted] »

sho_hn wrote: post #14

My advice to everyone feeling existential vertigo over these tools is to remain confident and trust in yourself. If you were a smart dev before AI, chances are you will remain a smart dev with AI. My experience so far is that to a first approximation, the quality of the code/software generated with AI corresponds to the quality of the developer using the AI tool surprisingly well. An inexperienced, bad dev will still…

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