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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#451

Post by bossyTeacher »

paufernandez wrote: post #198
ghusto wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

Agree. But sometimes there is no "root cause", the brain is still a mystery. If you had been depressed even when you knew there was nothing to worry about, you would see it differently, because then you deduce that the black cloud is produced within. Chemistry trumps psychology. Good enough chemistry enables cognitive treatments. But to fix the wrong chemistry you need chemistry.

Arguably specific chemical patterns don't emerge and persist on their own. Basic causality will indicate that something caused that pattern, whether it is a disorder or a traumatic event. Chemical processes are not random. Otherwise, carbon based life forms would have never lasted this long

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#452

Post by wincy »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #358
Aurornis wrote: post #325

Vitamin D and Omega-3 are the two supplements that consistently appear to be super powerful in small studies and then fail to do anything significant at all in larger studies. Pause for a moment and consider the mere plausibility of the claims in the first few paragraphs: The effect size for antidepressants is 0.4, but the effect size for Vitamin D is 1.8? Are we to believe that Vitamin D supplements have an effect s…

Anecdotally, Vitamin D and B12 had more of a positive effect on my mental health than therapy or any of the half dozen prescription meds I tried. Hiking has the biggest effect though. I think maybe the problem is that therapists are diagnosing people, and psychiatrists are prescribing pills based on those diagnoses, but neither are ordering bloodwork to check for deficiencies. Which leads to a lot of people suffering…

I bought an E-Bike two years ago and it’s changed my life. I want to ride my bike all the time, and am counting down the days to spring. During the warmer months I run all the errands I possibly can with my bike instead of driving, and ride for pleasure often, going on multi hour bike rides. It’s just such a blissful feeling, and as I’ve gotten more fit I’ve been able to turn down the bike assist and built a lot of leg muscles.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#453

Post by kstrauser »

ghusto wrote: post #161
isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

Sometimes the root problem is that your neurochemistry is FUBAR and no amount of counseling with overcome a biological cause.

Frankly, I see this as similar to telling diabetics that they should use just enough insulin to get them to learn to stop being diabetic. That’s possible for a few type 2 diabetics who could make lifestyle changes that got them back into good ranges. It’s completely useless for type 1 diabetics, or type 2 who can no longer go back.

I’m neither diabetic nor depressed. I don’t have a dog in this hunt. I’m just always astonished at “have you tried not being depressed?” Some people can “snap out of it”. Many times that number of people cannot.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#455

Post by kstrauser »

corv wrote: post #365
Aerbil313 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit off-topic, but melatonin taken at right doses appears to work very well. (commonly prescribed doses are 10-30x too much and likely cause tolerance). See the post https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...

I’ve heard this before that common doses are unnecessarily high but why is that? Patents?

They’re considered dietary supplements and not medicine, so they’re not meaningfully regulated in the way meds are.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#456

Post by randusername »

isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

Same story here, but different drugs. Every year Nov to Mar means no lapses whatsoever in diet, exercise, sleep, supplements, clutter, lighting otherwise the SAD will seep in and erode me. I tried udosing ADHD meds this year and suddenly subsistence is easy and I have gas left in the tank for worthwhile things.

I feel like I speedrun Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

No anhedonia so far this year and my creative output is at all-time high. Hope that helps someone get over their own biases about prescriptions.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#457

Post by sfn42 »

citrin_ru wrote: post #227
paufernandez wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. But sometimes there is no "root cause", the brain is still a mystery. If you had been depressed even when you knew there was nothing to worry about, you would see it differently, because then you deduce that the black cloud is produced within. Chemistry trumps psychology. Good enough chemistry enables cognitive treatments. But to fix the wrong chemistry you need chemistry.

If you view a world at a certain angle there is always something to worry about: 1. World in not perfect, it doesn't confirm to how we want it to be (and could not even in theory given that different people want it to be different) 2. The future cannot be predicted with 100% accuracy so even if all is perfect today you can worry that it will turn bad in the future. When looking at the same reality one persons sees th…

Depression and pessimism are not the same thing.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#458

Post by kranner »

isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

Similar story here but for ADHD and Atomoxetine.

I finally went and got diagnosed at age 46 for what had been an childhood-onset issue in retrospect. All the signs were there: inability to start work until enough challenge or novelty or a state of crisis had come about, etc. When I spoke to friends about considering treatment, they said they thought of me as a hyperfocus kind of person. But they didn't see how many support systems I had put in place to function normally, how I saw others around me just doing things while I had to work myself up to start and then keep checking and double-checking for the silly inattentive mistakes I knew from experience I would keep making.

I've had a meditation practice for a long time and it has helped with anxiety but it hasn't really helped with getting started on tasks, especially those perceived as boring. I even had to psych myself up to sit down and start meditating, even though I knew I would enjoy it.

I didn't know until a year or two ago that non-stimulant medication existed to treat ADHD. I always thought it was only Adderall and the like, and I couldn't risk anything that would ramp my anxiety up, or take additional treatment for the anxiety with SSRIs because I have severe hemophilia and any additional risk of bleeding from SSRIs was an untenable proposition.

After sitting on the idea for some time and just hoping that I could fix it with more meditation, I finally decided to see a psychiatrist. The doctor suggested Atomoxetine, but said it doesn't work for most people and even then takes 3-4 weeks to take full effect. I started on the absurdly low dose of 10mg/day for the first month to be sure it wouldn't cause additional bleeds. By day 3 I could see a huge improvement in my working memory and ability to perform tasks. It gave me insomnia for a bit but I would wake up at 3 AM, sit down happily to work and write the best code I've written in years. I could not believe the difference it made. There were quite a few side effects initially but I was willing to put up with them because of how smoothly my brain was functioning. I became a nicer person to deal with. I felt this sense of possibility and freedom that I haven't felt since my 20s. My only regret is not having done this sooner.

So yeah, please don't avoid medication based on internet reading.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#459

Post by butlike »

subscribed wrote: post #229
bflesch wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no experience about antidepressants myself so please excuse my stupid question. When I hear people say "it killed my libido" I always think about the fact that hyper-sexuality can be a trauma response, and if your body is healing the hyper-sexuality is most likely also reduced. It's like when you have a disease and then read the side effects of a medication and notice that a lot of the side effects are basical…

Stupid question - why do you keep suggesting that having a libido equals hypersexuality? Is this your trauma speaking, or do you automatically associate any sexual needs with a pathology? You've done it twice in this thread alone.

I didn't read their comment as insinuating libido is 1:1 to hyper-sexuality. I read it as: "consider if you have a libido, and depression, you may also be hyper sexually."

The situation is PersonA has determined they need an anti-depressant. So one thing is 'wrong.' It stands to reason that they may be using sex as a painkilling mechanism. After all, sex feels great. When the anti-depressant kicks in, the body may determine it doesn't have to use that painkilling method anymore, hence, the decreased libido. It doesn't mean having a libido is bad, it means that the person potentially was overdriving it.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#460

Post by marginalia_nu »

b800h wrote: post #412
marginalia_nu wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stimulants (of caffeine is one) are the de-facto treatment for ADHD, not entirely unlikely caffeine is keeping me subclinical.

Some stimulants are a treatment for ADHD. Caffeine is not one of them, and whilst there are suggestions it can act as a short-term treatment for some people, it's not recommended.

Actual ADHD meds aren't available to me, so it'll just have to work.
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