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U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

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Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#451
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your phrasing "something more productive in the private sector" is taken from the DOGE emails to federal employees. Note that in this sense "productive" means "makes money for corporations". If your utility function is different, these jobs are no longer more productive. For a very concrete illustration, I know a Veterans Administration physician who got the DOGE emails. He's been underpaid by $50k-100k per year comp…

I know a land lord that rents his apartment for $500/mo, when it's worth $2000/mo because he cares about his community. Did I just solve the housing crisis?

No, but maybe he did.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

were you not employed by an employer that was paying your insurance premiums? Heck, when I was in california the startup I was at was paying almost my entire insurance premium. and in practice, I'd argue I had better quality of care from that than from my socialized insurance in my current country, though the socialized care does have some benefits. reason for better quality of care is that in the US system for all i…

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health... The data does not support the claim that the US has "better quality of care"

the US is a big place with large variance in care. Places with socialized/centrally managed medicine are arguably going to have less variance. As I argued, "I had better care", not that everyone has better care.

As a techie with good insurance, I could be in the top percentiles of care in the US and therefore have better care.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I often point out here, my marginal rate where I live (Ireland) and what I'd have paid in California were almost identical. Now California is a high-tax state, but given that there's no health insurance included that seems pretty similar to me.

were you not employed by an employer that was paying your insurance premiums? Heck, when I was in california the startup I was at was paying almost my entire insurance premium. and in practice, I'd argue I had better quality of care from that than from my socialized insurance in my current country, though the socialized care does have some benefits. reason for better quality of care is that in the US system for all i…

> were you not employed by an employer that was paying your insurance premiums? Heck, when I was in california the startup I was at was paying almost my entire insurance premium.

I didn't end up moving to California, mostly for family reasons. However, I do in fact get my private health insurance paid (mostly) by my employer in Ireland.

> reason for better quality of care is that in the US system for all its problems, the patient is the customer as they have many options and each doctor is running an independent business. my experience with socialized medicine is that the government is really the customer, not me, and doctors are not really running independent businesses (and when they do, they aren't particularly cheap). It's like having a single HMO that gets to decide what you get with little recourse. While some might equate it to health insurance companies in the US, I, at least, felt I had much more flexibility with them.

I mean, I am a specialist and I like when people listen to me about my specialist advice. Therefore, I'm OK with listening to doctors. Clearly I'll find another doctor if the advice doesn't work consistently but my prior is to listen to the experts, so I don't really see the benefit of the US approach.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#454
I had two friends (both PHDs, both worked for the CDC) leave the US this week.

In addition to the tumult at the agency, they were being monitored for what they did on their own time. Truly draconian stuff.

Want to collaborate with the WHO? Forbidden. Speak at a conference abroad on vacation time? Nope.

I don’t blame them. The autocratic push at the top feels different when it extends beyond work, and touches causes you feel deeply about. It’s a huge loss for the US.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of scientists work in industry. Look at AI, rocketry, semiconductors, drug design, robotics, anything related to manufacturing. Academics are in the minority in these fields. You could eliminate all such jobs and there'd be plenty of science being done.

That's applied science. You don't have companies doing basic research because it isn't immediately profitable. You have to do both, basic research to learn things, and applied science to utilize it and make it commercially valuable.

Businesses have a long history of funding research with long time horizons. Look at quantum computing.

Whether that's basic or applied, well who really cares? The distinction is an academic invention because there's no definition of what basic research means and how it's different to applied. Was the transformer algorithm basic research? It's certainly become a fundamental general algorithm, but read the paper and it was designed to help Google Translate.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US, with around 4% of world population, has around 25% of the worlds prisoners, vastly higher in total and percentage wise than China.

It would not be higher in total if you included the estimated number of Uyghurs detained in internment camps. Even considering that, there are a couple other factors that don't make the numbers you presented mean much. One factor is that the U.S. is the 3rd largest by population and will always skew higher in total prisoners than many other countries. The other factor which explains the relatively high incarceration…

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Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#457
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European researcher here. There is an other thing that should make America worry. Research grants have been cut everywhere in the US. That cuts deep and terminated many scientific collaborations between USA and the EU Horizons projects in many STEMs research fields. That created a void.... and sciences is like nature: it hates void (and the lack of money...) My perception in the domain is that the resulting void is b…

You being an outside observer of my country, what do you think the mid-term (next ~decade) looks like if the US is somehow able to flush the toilet and do a complete 180 from a policy and administration perspective? I imagine even if people we need are welcomed back with open arms, they're not going to want to come. I sure wouldn't want to go back to a bar where the bouncer kicked the shit out of me! Just curious, it…

After the 2016 election, my advisor's entire research lab relocated to Europe except for two candidates who were nearly finished with a PhD and got co-advised.

The majority of us who moved became proficient in a foreign language. Some got permanent EU/UK/Swiss residency or even citizenship. This lab continues to attract researchers from the U.S. and then place them mostly into European and Asian universities or businesses. These folks are largely not going back to America short of forceful expulsion via European anti-immigration policy. I know other research group leaders who have done this same thing.

Someone I know in the U.S. has a PhD/grants/awards and wants to stay close to family/home (in a mid-sized city of a Republican-leaning state) yet hasn't been able to find a job or academic position in biological engineering after a few years of actively looking. The longer they work outside of their major, the harder it will be to secure an engineering/academic career later.

For too many in the U.S. (particularly where I grew up; a farm town) politics is a team sport and the hatred of the other team only intensifies as the government invests in higher education and research. They're willfully blind to the fact that cancer treatments, major agricultural advances (crop resilience, production efficiency, genetic modification), smartphones and fast internet access, trucking, and nearly every aspect of their lives which has vastly improved comes from social spending. Instead, it's stickers on gas pumps and chants at NASCAR races. Leftist voters are not as decisive at the voting booth as Republicans, and there's still right-wing momentum in many states across all levels of government, the judicial system, and the leadership of the largest companies.

I firmly disbelieve the U.S. can reverse course even after a decade. In my opinion, it would require immense structural and cultural change: breaking up the two-party system, rejecting money in politics, political/judicial age limits, a major push to disrupt clandestine foreign meddling, shifting the partisan balance of courts in a way that cannot later be weaponized, heavy investment in infrastructure and high-visibility patriotic (ideally non-partisan) programs similar to Eisenhower's, the sort of intense media regulation that would restore local journalism in small towns, paying teachers significantly more plus developing more public trust in the educational system, public research investment, high taxes, strong social programs, a rejection of the propaganda that America is the greatest country in the world; basically a shift toward being more like the countries that actually(*) have a high standard of living.

Who has the power to implement these sweeping changes? Would it be a conflict of their personal interests?

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#458
post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

EU is more stable. A sigle person can't declare themselves dictator and unilaterally start applying rules affecting the whole of EU. And the "extreme" tax thing is just pure propaganda. USA pays just as much, but it's not called a "tax", it's just insurance copays (whatever that is), credit card fees, childcare fees, tuitions etc.

That’s right they can’t just like lock everybody down into their homes and force them to get a vaccine for no freaking reason. The ex dream tax is what we pay in California which is driving all the business businesses out and driving all the homelessness in. The extreme tax is what midwits like yourself protect with the ferocity only surpassed by that of which you show for non-citizens

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#459
post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think the taxes are a big factor. The most entrepreneurial tech-oriented startup hubs in the US are the highest taxed states. The regulatory environment does make a difference.

And they’re all leaving…
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