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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

keck.usc.edu

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#451

Post by b40d-48b2-979e »

nottorp wrote: post #402
jonstewart wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m reading your comment more sardonically about the state of US manufacturers, but globally I don’t think this holds up. Some of the most expensive vehicles—trucks and SUVs—have the worst mileage. Often the cheaper a new car is, the better gas mileage it gets. This dynamic might not hold as consistently with used cars but it’s not entirely eliminated, either.

What does this have to do with mileage? It's about affording to pay for the damn car itself. Compare the same category of car in gasoline and EV versions. See how the EV adds 10k to the price. Not much by silicon valley latte standards of course. A lot by "i can barely afford a barebones renault" standards though.

    Compare the same category of car in gasoline and EV versions.
Have you looked at the bulk of cars people are buying new? They're $60K+ trucks and SUVs. Those same people could be buying EVs today.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#452

Post by MBCook »

formerly_proven wrote: post #361
torginus wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEPA filters stop dust particles and not those tiny organic molecules that cause the smells. Filters for these exist as well, usually used in respirators, but those need to be exchanged pretty frequently and are not cheap.

Activated charcoal filters are a common option even out of the factory, and I’d be surprised if there were a car you can’t get them aftermarket. They don’t last that long but honestly I’d recommend swapping the cabin filter yearly anyway.

Someone recommended them to me years ago and I’m never going back.

One of the reasons I wrote the comment above is because my filter has worn out and needs replacing, so all of a sudden I can smell all this nonsense again.

1000% with the money.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#453

Post by MBCook »

rblatz wrote: post #180
MBCook wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think expense is basically the problem. Cost to replace the catalytic converter, cost for new exhaust pipes, cost to diagnose ignition timing problems. Whatever. If the car drives and you don’t have the money I can completely understand why someone wouldn’t get the problem fixed. Even if it means they’re burning a 1/3 of their fuel, that’s still less in the short term than the $1500 it may cost to fix it. It’s insa…

Some states handle this by requiring cars over a certain age to be emission checked before you can renew its registration. Failing cars have to be fixed and rechecked before you can get your tags.

I live in one of the US states with no emissions checks at all.

Well that’s not strictly true. If you move into the state you have to get one emissions check to get your car licensed.

After that, or if you buy the car in the state, no checks for you.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#454

Post by stahtops »

margalabargala wrote: post #445
stahtops wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of ICE cars let you control the transmission, and not just MT. Engine braking is effectively the same as regen braking to tires. Regen is lossy, so there’s no incentive in slowing down to capture 1W just to speed up and spend 1.1W Porsche has modes for coast and regen. Applying brakes in coast mode will use regen up to a threshold and then use conventional pad/rotor. So I am sorry to inform you that you’re jus…

You make a fair point that engine braking is not dissimilar. However the impact of engine braking is orders of magnitude smaller. The reason to capture 1W and then spend 1.1W is it keeps you at a consistent speed. That's why manufacturers do it. Lots of people in these comments who have never actually driven an EV while looking at the energy usage readout. Personally I've never driven a Porsche but I've driven EVs fr…

You should answer for yourself why any of the three stopping methods would result in more or less tire wear than the other.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#455

Post by magicalhippo »

margalabargala wrote: post #439
magicalhippo wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, my Renault Megane e-Tech has paddles that allow me to change the regen strength on the fly. I use it actively when driving. But anyway, I find I drive differently with an EV. I don't let off the throttle unless I want to slow down. If I want to coast, I just reduce my throttle input to where its coasting.

Sure, lots of vehicles allow you to change the strength. Some allow you to set the regen very very low. Generally they do not allow you to turn it off.

I'll have to double-check, but as I recall it the lowest setting in Sports mode was off. But maybe just very, very low.

In any case, what's the problem with having it very, very low vs off? Like, what do you really need coasting for? Not something I've felt I've been missing.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#456

Post by nottorp »

b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #451
nottorp wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with mileage? It's about affording to pay for the damn car itself. Compare the same category of car in gasoline and EV versions. See how the EV adds 10k to the price. Not much by silicon valley latte standards of course. A lot by "i can barely afford a barebones renault" standards though.

Compare the same category of car in gasoline and EV versions. Have you looked at the bulk of cars people are buying new? They're $60K+ trucks and SUVs. Those same people could be buying EVs today.

I did say something about SV lattes didn't I? Not everyone is over there.

Plus how much is the EV version of a 60k usd truck? 75k? More?

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#457

Post by stahtops »

dijit wrote: post #256

The real scandal isn’t just battery degradation… it’s that manufacturers have zero incentive to solve it. Your car becoming worthless after a decade suits them down to the ground. Battery swapping changes the game entirely. Imagine a national network of exchange stations (co-located with existing petrol infrastructure, you can use the overhead canopy for solar). Standard pack sizes scaled by vehicle class: compact ca…

Anecdata, my i3 range was not perceptibly reduced after ~8 years, 82k miles. But the pack was thermally managed, and from what I understand, also didn’t allow you to go to true 0 or true 100 SOC.

Tesla lets you use it all, which gets bigger range numbers (for a time) but at the cost of degradation, if you use it.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#458

Post by mrj »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #410
MBCook wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of ICE cars I get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing. I’m in a decently well off area too. Some putting off soot clouds, white smoke, nothing visible but clearly not doing complete combustion. Sometimes I wonder if half the cylinders are even working. I’ve heard one car like that is the equivalent of a surprisingly large number of modern ICE cars is in good shape. I love EVs. I’ve had…

White smoke is water vapor. It's a normal byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion and tends to condense in the exhaust at low loads or immediately after exiting the exhaust, especially in colder temperatures, so you'll see a lot of it in stop and go traffic.

If it "reeks" though it's not just water vapor. I see a lot of these cars too, and you can tell it's been going on for a long time when the back of the car is covered in a layer of black grime. I think that's what kind of car problem the post is referring to.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#459

Post by Aurornis »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #233
driverdan wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is doing it for louder noises because the muffler portion is what dampens the sound. Cats also act as mufflers, they significantly reduce the sound coming out the exhaust.

I had downvotes on this post until you (and the other car enthusiasts) pointed this out / saw this. HNs lack of knowledge around cars is sort of frightening.

If I had to guess, the downvotes were from the “A lot of Americans” claim

> HNs lack of knowledge around cars is sort of frightening.

I actually have a lot of knowledge and experience in the automotive space, including with exhaust systems!

Catalytic converter removal alone doesn’t have a big change exhaust tone. I have seen it first hand, and also with 100-cell and 200-cell race cats as an intermediary step.

Your posts are full of condescending assumptions about Americans and HN’s comments about cars, but you’re ignoring the actual facts others are trying to share.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#460

Post by jdeibele »

margalabargala wrote: post #157
fafac wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. The reason there's more dust is from the increased weight of the EV not because of regen braking. You can coast in EV as well, that is not exclusive to ICE.

> The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. I'm aware. The point I'm making is that EVs apply more braking than ICE vehicles do, due to the specifics of the implementation of regen braking that all manufacturers have chosen. > You can coast in EV as well Not without literally putting it in neutral. If you just take your foot off the accelerator, any modern EV will apply some amo…

Adaptive cruise control lets you set a speed, usually the speed limit, and then you just have to steer.

In a gas car that means the car is using the brakes and gas engine (obviously) but it’s a jarring experience compared to a BEV or hybrid. The regenerative braking and smooth acceleration are much more pleasant.

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