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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#451

Post by Tade0 »

randerson wrote: post #215
sklargh wrote: post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

I wanted to replace my gas Macan with the new EV one. After a test drive I decided to just keep the gas one. As an EV it is excellent. But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character. Letting the driver manage that power curve is fun. A perfectly linear sub-3s 0-60 with fake e…

> But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character

Personally I experienced this the strongest in my friend's restored mk3 Ford Escort. I recall it as a feeling of not actually being inside a car due to the wind and engine noise.

Meanwhile the BMW 5 Series I rented a while ago didn't provide any of those feelings. Granted, it was a diesel automatic, but when I floored it, it just went and the engine noise was barely noticeable - at least compared to my poorly noise insulated daily Toyota.

The best thing about that car was that I could take my family on a 400km trip, the last 100km of which were mountain roads and not even break a sweat.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#452

Post by a-french-anon »

KoolKat23 wrote: post #328
appplication wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not actual quality, it’s perceived quality. Chinese companies will fight decades of history and negative perception to reach top of the market consumers, a segment obsessed with perception.

Yeah I still don't understand this argument. The only cars I ever hear of (in Europe) with issues are German or French cars (not all brands). (Don't see many American brands here).

Did everyone forget the Kia/Hyundai lack of immobilizer US debacle already?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#453

Post by brightball »

joe_mamba wrote: post #256
nostromo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until very recently, tariffs on American cars sold in China were much higher than vice-versa. The new US tariffs were an attempt to even the playing field. I think most people would agree that no tariffs would be good, but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy.

> but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy. Not true. China let Tesla set up shop in the backyard of their domestic EV industry, WITHOUT the mandatory by law 51% Chinese ownership, precisely so Tesla would light a fire under the asses of domestic players, forcing them to compete better with what was at the time, the pinnacle EV brand. China is no longer beati…

Yep, it’s amazing how much knowledge and capability a country can develop when it has most of the worlds manufacturing.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#454

Post by a-french-anon »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #64
rr808 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese and Chinese are very different buckets. What is the long term reliability of Chinese cars? Nobody knows.

I wouldn't be too concerned. Hyundai used to be synonymous with "garbage".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Challenge

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#455

Post by brightball »

nielsbot wrote: post #213
pear01 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.

Interesting that Canada agreed to break with the US on EV tariffs. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46648778 It's limited but I feel like Canada aligning themselves at all with China over the US is an interesting development.

Wasn’t there a report in the last 10 years about China accounting for a huge portion of property sales in Canada? I thought I remembered seeing it was as high as 30% in some areas.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#456

Post by Esophagus4 »

bruce511 wrote: post #217
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

44 million US households have no garage, including ~2/3 of renters

Sounds like a market opportunity for kerb-side, low speed, charging points. Not to mention parking garages for daytime parking at work. Not to mention mall parking lots. The garage is an obvious starting point, because your car spends a lot of time there, but there are lots of opportunities elsewhere. Once upon a time 44 million households didn't have electricity. Things change.

I have no garage and work from home. So no workplace to charge.

So now you’ve added another thing I have to worry about - finding charging somewhere along my 10 minute errand route?

EVs are a bad solution to a problem I don’t have. Hybrids are much better.

For the small amount of driving I do, driving my commuter ICE car with a tiny, 35-mpg 4 cylinder engine is fine… why are the EV cultists so convinced their way is the only way and the rest of us are living in prehistoric times?

Plus, your EV is heavier than my ICE, so your tires shed rubber particulate more quickly than my tires due to the weight, which is also an environmental pollutant (that is toxic enough to kill wildlife, btw)

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd6951

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#457

Post by petercooper »

lql1 wrote: post #355

In some european countries (atleast in finland), you pay less taxes for "electrified" cars than pure gas powered, so most people who buy porsche (atleast in finland) does not ever charge the car via charger, and never drive with "hybrid mode". Hybrid porsches are called "tax evasion hybrids" atleast in finland

This is true to some extent in the UK as well. We have a curious company car tax regime where CO2 emissions are used to define the tax rates so hybrids are somewhat lower, although it's still onerous compared to just buying a car personally.

However, pure EVs are taxed at very low rates in comparison, so if you own a company or have the ability to do a "salary sacrifice" for a car with your employer, it becomes very tax advantageous to get an EV. Your company can also pay for your insurance, EV charge installation, public charging costs (even for private mileage) and so forth, so it's very common to see small business owners in EVs compared to private buyers. Porsches also tend to have particularly low monthly payments compared to their value since I guess they hold their value well and can be traded back in at the end of the financing period. I don't have one, though, as a Porsche is just crying out to be keyed or mocked where I live compared to a more modest car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#458

Post by Esophagus4 »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #265
nielsbot wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the urgent need for charging infrastructure: Incentives to install charges in homes and rental unit garages and at curbsides.

Isn't it a lot easier just to sell people hybrids instead?

Absolutely. And Toyota agrees with you.

The people in this thread have lost their minds in a cult of EV.

I don’t know why EV has to be the answer to every question. There are plenty of economical hybrid options.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#459

Post by psychoslave »

jansper39 wrote: post #422
psychoslave wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

Reliable is only slightly related to be maintenable.

ECU embedding makes the whole system more complexe. That is not necessary absolutely a bad thing, but the trade-off is different. And there is on top of that a different topic which is how electronics are used to enforce obsolescence and make harder to maintain the vehicle without special equipment of the specific firm. This can also be enforced with more analogical stuffs of course, but electronic devices are more likely to be used this way.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#460

Post by Esophagus4 »

wilg wrote: post #279
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

Well, a hybrid doesn't solve the problem. We don't need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we need to zero them out. You can't do that if you sometimes burn gas.

You know car emissions are like 15% total greenhouse gas emissions in the US right? And half that worldwide.

This is just the most visible source for a bunch of people who have made their conclusion unencumbered by the data.

The emissions from powering and heating your house are several times what your car emissions are.

So go solve that one and leave my Corolla alone.

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