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Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

theatlantic.com

451–460 of 517 posts

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#451
post #423

The headline is part of a widespread trend of the word "gambling" being used as synonymous with "betting". This new use isn't constructive, as it makes it difficult to talk about either precisely. Betting (risking something known for a payout which is uncertain), is ubiquitous in life, and really any game where the participants don't have perfect information. You are betting even if you don't realize it. You can't op…

> Gambling refers to taking on risk for the feeling it brings. Is there much of a difference when it comes to placing bets on the news? To play off the article's opening example: investing in mineral exploration in Greenland, with an American invasion opening up opportunities for resource extraction, would be taking a risk with an unknown payout due to imperfect information. That is to say, it is taking a risk to bui…

Investing in a business is also a bet. The capital you provide is a known quantity, you risk it for an uncertain outcome (the future value of the shares).

If your informational edge is just America invading Greenland, let's say you know that for sure. Then you could invest in the business, but you might actually be diluting your edge if you don't know more than the market does about the fundamentals of the business. The business could already have a lot of debt, and unable to get more to finance an expansion into Greenland. It would be less risky in that instance to just bet on the invasion, since that is where your edge is.

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about "traditional" sports gambling rather than prediction markets: how do we account for the heavy restrictions they place on "sharps" (consistent winners)? If a game can be won through application of skill, but winning through application of skill causes you to be effectively banned, then the game cannot be won through application of skill.

The game is still won through the application of skill even if the house chooses not to play it with you.

The house isn't a player. They offer the game for players to play. That is a fundamentally different role.

Saying that the house is playing the game against you is equivalent to saying that Nintendo is playing Super Mario Bros against you.

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#453
post #63
post #57

If insiders trade, the market becomes more accurate, which is good for society. Like WikiLeaks. Thus the MSN panic, the legacy establishment wants Polymarket to follow Assange's path.

Yep, some WH member trading 400k$ an hour before an attack sure did wonders for "the good of society". So does media showing rates on gambling websites as if they were an oracle and not something that can be gamed for cheaper than a TV ad. For fucks sake...

Sounds like for those paying attention it could give an early heads up of what's about to happen.

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any studies that can accurately show the correlation between gambling and societal costs? On the surface the link makes sense to me and seems like it should be right, though I'm not sure how we could have tested it in a controlled way to really know the link exists.

There are a bunch of studies out there [0][1] (two I found immediately) showing the risks around problem gambling, but like with most vices people who’ve already picked the pro side tend to react in the same predictable ways (myself included): 1) Dismissal: Feigning or having a profound misunderstanding of how statistics work by poking at the methodology like “N=200? That’s meaningless.” 2) Apathy: “So what if some p…

[deleted]

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#456
post #275

> These markets are also manipulable. In 2012, one bettor on the now-defunct prediction market Intrade placed a series of huge wagers on Mitt Romney in the two weeks preceding the election, generating a betting line indicative of a tight race. The bettor did not seem motivated by financial gain, according to two researchers who examined the trades. “More plausibly, this trader could have been attempting to manipulate…

The article suggests that if a candidate's odds of winning goes up on the gambling market, then his chance of winning in real life are improved. But they don't provide any evidence that this is actually the case. Maybe seeing the odds of one candidate rising is just as motivating to his supporters as it is to his opposition.

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#457

Prediction markets to me are a natural consequence of the post-truth world we live in. For one, it creates insanely imbalanced systems where two sides of a 50/50 market have completely opposite world views that when the market resolves may have access to sources, whether completely fake or misinfo'd, that lead them to believe the market should be settled in their favor. This then puts the prediction market in a place…

natural consequence of the post-truth world we live in

We _currently_ live in. Truth and trust are older than computers. They will outlive computers, too. Computers and the system we have built will eventually yield to truth, not the other way around.

One can get a credit card and say they are living in a post-scarcity world until they hit the limit, but that doesn't make it true.

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#458
Prediction markets are another way to monetize attention.

The typical notion of the “attention economy” is that you build your audience by getting attention—doesn’t much matter how—and then you get paid to advertise things to them. Could be white label retail like supplements or hats, or could be “content partnerships,” or just straight up ads a la “this episode brought to you by Squarespace.”

Prediction markets only make real money if there is attention. I can predict when my neighbor will take out their trash cans, but without attention, no one will take the counter or put up funds.

Conversely if something does have a lot of attention, then literally anything about it can be predicted, bet, funded, and fulfilled.

I can’t think of a way to stop this, any more easily than I can think of a way to stop people from getting paid to shit-post ragebait slop on YouTube, X, TikTok, etc.

Attention is the complement of free expression. If we let people say whatever they want, then people can also pay attention to whatever they want.

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any studies that can accurately show the correlation between gambling and societal costs? On the surface the link makes sense to me and seems like it should be right, though I'm not sure how we could have tested it in a controlled way to really know the link exists.

In my country, lot of institutions running out-of-home-campaigns against gambling-addiction etc.; so yes, if public institutions are doing this then there is some evidence there

Must be nice to live in a country where you can make that inference.

Re: Prediction markets are ushering in a world in which news becomes about gambling

#460

Not just America, everything is. With stock market, at least we can somehow stop the bad actors, insider traders, corporate manipulation, pumps and dumps - with prediction markets, there is no way. With prediction markets? Next to impossible. The markets being tied to crypto makes it even worse - things get harder to track, jurisdictions get blurry, proving becomes a ping pong between bureaucracy. And proving somethi…

As a matter of adopting sensible definitions, I think you need to draw the line somewhere between what is gambling and what is not. If the risk taken can, in principle, be shifted in your favour (i.e. to produce positive expectation) through application of skill, then it isn't gambling. For example, in my mind, betting on whether you will win a game of chess is not gambling. On the other hand, if you cannot influence…

>For example, in my mind, betting on whether you will win a game of chess is not gambling

As a general rule it is considered gambling not if skill is involved, but if there is any uncertainty involved.

And because there is not such thing as a perfect application of skill, all applications of skill have a degree of uncertainty to them. And you don't necessarily know how much your skill and luck will be in effect in the game.

In the context of Chess. Do you get to choose who you play against or is there a random draw? How close is the other player to you in skill? If you are both alike in skill then the skill application will be less important to the outcome.

I once lost a game at a tournament that had the rule that usage of en passant required saying en passant before doing it, so I was playing this guy whose skill was abysmal, we walked into a scenario where the very next move he did was going to allow me to do en passant, he had to take that move, or do something else that would lead to me taking his queen in the next move, and then folding up pretty all of his pieces and coming out two queens ahead. If he did the en passant move his position was worse, it was checkmate in like 10 moves.

If he had seen it and had any politeness and grace he would have just resigned. I mean it was extremely painful to have gotten into this position because it could be seen 20 moves before we were going to end up here and yet, he laboriously walked in to it, he could have gotten out before, by sacrificing a horse, and then a bit later he could have gotten out by sacrificing a horse and a knight, and then a horse and a knight and a castle, etc. etc. But nope, he just made move by stupid move into this position.

So then he made the move that I should make en passant with and ... I forgot the term "en passant" I couldn't remember the term to use, my brain froze, I probably let the clock run for ten minutes trying to remember the word, it's also not like I didn't know the move and the phrase, I had known it that 20 moves ago when I was thinking I do A, he do B I do C... and then en passant. But I couldn't remember.

Now if I had been not such a stickler for rules I might just have done it anyway hoping for him to accept and not require me to say it, but I didn't. So he won. Later my friend played him and he said "You lost to that guy?!" and I said "fuck I froze up and forgot the word to en passant, I had him setup to take all his stuff but because I forgot the word he had me. Damn it"

Despite differences of skill other factors can prevent the skill from being deployed to its greatest effect. If someone knew Bryan is skillful, but he does have a habit of choking up or sometimes losing focus in longer games, whereas that guy there sucks so the odds are 4 to 1 in Bryan's favor (which I was very much more skillful than this guy, so embarrassing), but that guy is skillful enough to drag it out a bit, and he will never give in, therefore it might make sense for me to bet a small amount in this case to leverage the uncertainty.

Because of course that kind of gambling is itself a form of skill.

If you only consider gambling on things that do not have any skill component, you then essentially say that gambling does not take any skill, which then leaves you with a large sphere of skilled activity, that many people have taken part in for many years of human society and that has traditionally been known as gambling, which now does not have a name to identify it.

What should this field of activity that you have rendered nameless by your fiat be called then?

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