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Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

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Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#451

Post by Fischgericht »

ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #118

How casually people here are ignoring NOx and especially PM2.5. It has no DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). You are emitting more than 200 times the amount of pm2.5 than a modern diesel. source: https://www.nanoparticles.ch/archive/2011_May_PR.pdf https://aaqr.org/articles/aaqr-20-02-oa-0081 Also this car has only has 60hp.

Mine had the HDi engine with DPF and 70hp.

Citroën were the first to make DPF standard.

Also, I would like to kindly remind you of the concept of "time". This was 25 year ago. The alternatives would have been worse. These days a C15 would be electric.

Obviously the OP is tounge-in-cheek, so keep it lightly.

But it does have merit: If you wish to measure your environmental footprint, you must look at the total lifetime of car, most importantly the manufacturing part. There is a difference between 900 KG of parts for a C15 vs 1,900 - 2400 KG for a Ford Ranger. These days most PM come from braking. Stopping 2000 KG will obviously cause more emissions from the brakes than stopping 1000 KG.

All in all, the point really is: The ratio between weight/size of the car itself and what is inside (people and/or server racks) has gotten completely out of hand. No, you do not need a 2,000 KG tank to move your 50-100 KG of flesh around. It's insanity, no matter if your care about the planet or not.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#452

Post by cowsandmilk »

Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

A 1984 Ford Ranger with a bed cap would compare favorably to the C15.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#453

Post by jijijijij »

chihuahua wrote: post #344
jijijijij wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I don't think that's true, the car as mere tool is romantic anachronism. Back then, cars were central identitarian elements to the post-war, western promise of salvation. Whole cities were torn down and rebuild to fit the car. The car had ideological significance. I think, identitarian attachment to the car is actually less today, but due to the historic importan…

Can you give an example of a European city that was "torn down and rebuilt to fit the car?" In my experience, even cities that suffered a lot of war time damage (Hamburg, Dresden) were rebuilt with every street in exactly the same place with the same narrow width.

It's a bit hyperbole, of course, and I was speaking to the sentiment of the time. In Germany Cologne would be an example of heavy car-centric development, coming to mind, but pretty much any city in West-Germany suffered this fate to some extent. I think there are far more drastic examples in America, but I am not knowledgeable about that.

> Das Konzept der autogerechten Stadt wurde in West-Deutschland beim Wiederaufbau der im Krieg zerstörten Städte umgesetzt, beispielsweise in Hannover (durch den damaligen Stadtbaurat Rudolf Hillebrecht), Dortmund, Köln und Kassel, aber auch in kleineren Städten wie Minden und Gießen. Dabei wurde in großem Umfang auch erhaltene Bausubstanz abgerissen. Vielfach wurden Stadtteile ohne Berücksichtigung sozioökonomischer und kultureller Faktoren zur Anlage von Durchgangsstraßen zerschnitten.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogerechte_Stadt

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#454

Post by Fischgericht »

constantcrying wrote: post #447
Fischgericht wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citroën were the first to make diesel filters standard. And my C15 had the HDi engine with diesel filters. And unlike others, they did not cheat and were not part of the Diesel scandal. Also, I survived. And when it comes to security features, more important than not having side airbags would have been not to combine smoking weed and fellatio while doing 160. I am not saying that any of this would be a good idea if k…

>Citroën were the first to make diesel filters standard. And my C15 had the HDi engine with diesel filters. Modern Diesel Engines have gotten so much better in every single area. >And unlike others, they did not cheat and were not part of the Diesel scandal. https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/dutch-court-says-dies... Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py37TT6PxW4 to see just how common cheating was. Also have…

"From 2009."

The concept of "software in motors" did not exist in the age of the C15.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#455

Post by speedgoose »

kelnos wrote: post #423
speedgoose wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, the statement that a shitty C15 is safer than a modern SUV is too hard to ignore. Overall, my statement isn't to take very seriously though.

Not quite. The statement was that the C15 is safer for people outside of the car than the modern SUV. If I had to get hit by a car, I'd much rather it be the C15 than the modern SUV. I'm much less likely to survive the SUV hitting me. Now you can make the argument that other modern safety features make it less likely that the modern SUV would even hit you in the first place (given automatic emergency braking, etc.),…

When I wrote everyone, I meant people inside and outside.

The statement wasn’t specific to collisions but you are free to prefer being hit by a C15. As for myself as a pedestrian, I am not sure. The modern SUV is bigger but modern cars have improve safety for pedestrians. Mostly much softer and taller bumpers. It’s not perfect but from the ncap YouTube videos, I may prefer the modern SUV.

If we go with empirical data, I suggest test crashing all those C15.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#456

Post by OptionOfT »

Rendello wrote: post #420
OptionOfT wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife: 5'5": https://imgur.com/a/CVFDb0D Not to mention the amount of stones they kick up. In AZ if your truck has a suspension lift, you're supposed to have mudflaps. But that law (and many other vehicle laws) is not enforced.

Being from rural Canada, I prefer the truck and snowmobile sizes of the 90s (but not their emissions, it's hard to breath when they drive by). All the options are so big now. Also, you may be married to Medjed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medjed#/media/File:Medjed.svg

I am not married to an Egyptian deity! But never the less, she's amazing.

Since you're from Canada, what do you think about this one:

https://imgur.com/a/0pxeXVF

Same wife (maybe even same shoes?) / Egyptian deity.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#457

Post by Fischgericht »

seabrookmx wrote: post #204
ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #118

How casually people here are ignoring NOx and especially PM2.5. It has no DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). You are emitting more than 200 times the amount of pm2.5 than a modern diesel. source: https://www.nanoparticles.ch/archive/2011_May_PR.pdf https://aaqr.org/articles/aaqr-20-02-oa-0081 Also this car has only has 60hp.

It's also unsafe. He's comparing it to a modern Ranger, not the Ranger of the same year as the C15 (which was much smaller and got better fuel economy), and he completely ignores the fact that the Citroen wasn't sold in North America. He seems to imply there would be no appetite for one here but I disagree. In western Canada I see imported Kei trucks everywhere and these fill a similar niche!

Safety is relative.

Ranger crashes into C15: Ranger wins, C15 passengers dead. Ranger crashes into human: Ranger wins, human dead.

C15 crashes into C15: Tossup. C15 crashes into human: C15 wins, but human is less dead.

The whole concept of car upsizing all the time is about that: If you crash into another moving object, you want to be the winner.

Understood. Buy a tank.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#458

Post by klez »

prmoustache wrote: post #436
klez wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope This is the original 500 https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/images/c... This is the new 500 https://www.actualidadmotor.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/F... I'll ignore the 500X and 500L because, to me, they are completely different cars. This is the original Panda from the 80s https://www.hagerty.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/The-ori... This is the Panda from the early 2000s (the one I used t…

ok I am referring to the early 2000's design, I believe Fiat was using the same platform and engine and I doubt they would do differently now.

Oh, ok, now I see what you mean.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#459

Post by nottorp »

Aurornis wrote: post #320
nottorp wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. What else is included in that subscription? Mirror and seat heating by any chance? Can you buy a Toyota that isn't always online? Because having remote start available, subscription or not, sounds like you can't.

> It depends. What else is included in that subscription? Mirror and seat heating by any chance? Are you saying it is? Or is this a rhetorical question? Either way, those are again luxury features. If someone is in the market for those features they’re not really looking for the base model any more.

> Are you saying it is? Or is this a rhetorical question?

i don't know. I'm not in the market for a new car atm. And considering how enthittified new cars are, I shouldn't be at all.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#460

Post by jijijijij »

ttoinou wrote: post #203
thelastgallon wrote: post #123

The French seem to be very thoughtful people who solved multiple pesky problems permanently: 1) Guillotine for the super rich 2) Nuclear to power >70% 3) C15 for people, cows, craftsmen, mini house 4) TGV 5) french fries for the fastest carbohydrate delivery, handily beating rice I wish they bring back the first 3 and do some shorts, market them to the world. Fries are doing fine.

Right now french people are obsessed with ecology and egalitarianism. Those who don't are not well seen in society, or left the country already. So the best thing I'd see them excelling at in this century, if they can drive their ideology in the right direction, would be producing low-tech solutions solving 90% of problems with 20% of the costs, with open-source like tools / materials / methods everyone can replicate…

> Right now french people are obsessed with ecology and egalitarianism.

Do you have anything to read up on that? This got me a little excited, but I also doubt it due to the rise of right wing populism everywhere else. Man, if France actually got the rare attitude to get shit done in these times, I may move there and help.

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