Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm returning my Framework 16

yorickpeterse.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 621 posts

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#451

Post by vbezhenar »

kelnos wrote: post #173
trueismywork wrote: post #167

> The Framework 16 weights about 2.2 kg according to my kitchen scale. For comparison, my X1 Carbon weights 1.3 kg. That may not seem like a big difference, but the extra kilogram makes carrying around the Framework 16 more difficult. In particular, I don't feel comfortable carrying it with just one hand while this isn't a problem with the X1. The author wanted a bigger laptop but the straight goes and compares it to…

Yeah I never get this complaint about 16" laptops. Hell, I don't really get 16" laptops at all: they're huge! You're making a very strange trade off: they're only barely portable, and you lose a lot of the power and flexibility you'd get with a desktop.

They are perfectly portable, if you would compare them with PC tower + display + UPS.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#452

Post by bee_rider »

goku12 wrote: post #330
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody. Reliable machines rarely need repairs outside of owner mistreatment, and most people I know who are technically capable enough to care about upgrading generally do it maybe once every 4-6 years, by which point hardware has usually advanced far enough that buying a new laptop is easy t…

> The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody. Judging reparability and serviceability the same way as you do with other features is absurd, to put it charitably! It is one feature that you rarely use, but brings you huge value when you do use it. You don't realize how much savings we used to extract by progressively upgrading t…

Isn’t “reuse the PSU” kind of a tempting trap? I though it was—a cheap part that can take down the rest of your expensive system. I though the advice was to get a new one with each build…

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#453

Post by ExoticPearTree »

IshKebab wrote: post #209
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use case is to replace an existing working stick with a higher capacity stick, not just for repairs.

How often are you actually going to do that though? My desktop from 12 years ago has 16GB of RAM and Apple only just upgraded their base specs to 16GB. Ok granted my new desktops have 128GB, but that's massive overkill so I can have like 12 VSCode's open. For normal people 16GB has been the sensible amount for at least a decade.

Considerinng how much memory Chrome consumes, I would say that 16GB is the bare minimum these days for any computer.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#454

Post by harvey9 »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #266
kelnos wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I never get this complaint about 16" laptops. Hell, I don't really get 16" laptops at all: they're huge! You're making a very strange trade off: they're only barely portable, and you lose a lot of the power and flexibility you'd get with a desktop.

My vision gets worse as I age. A larger screen lets me continue working with the same amount of code, etc. as when I was younger with a smaller screen.

Agree with you. I am always interested in threads about how to make the best of this. I recently read a blog post by someone who tried a mini pc and battery pack and vr headset as a portable workstation. Short answer was the vr display still isn't there yet.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#455

Post by debo_ »

justarandomname wrote: post #416
debo_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2005 is a really long time ago.

Yeah, 2 decades! I was just enjoying a bit of nostalgia for that old clunky grey laptop.

I regularly installed debian back then, and it would take me a week to get things working pretty much every time.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#456

Post by cosmic_cheese »

swiftcoder wrote: post #445
Spooky23 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screens are dramatically better than a few years ago and have been advancing if you care about and shop for the feature. Trackpads are slowly sucking less. Most people only see this in MacBook Pros, but the other manufacturers have excellent screens that are often hidden behind customization options and complex models/branding. I have a framework and love it, but it’s a computer made for a specific purpose that doesn…

> Trackpads are slowly sucking less This is an oddity of the PC laptop market I have never understood - Mac trackpads from a decade ago are still better than a top-of-the-line PC trackpad from the current year. The only thing Apple has done in that decade is make their trackpads slightly bigger (and made the click haptic rather than physical), so it feels like the PC folks should have caught up by now...

Part of it is software (drivers), and that’s something that hardware vendors have traditionally been poor at writing. The bar for a driver is “it technically works and doesn’t bluescreen” rather than “it works well”. It’s just more evident in this case because the continuous-input nature of a trackpad makes the poor functionality much more apparent.

The other is that I don’t think most laptop vendors spend nearly as much on their trackpads. MacBook trackpads have for a long time shared their touch sensitivity hardware with iPhones, which makes them extremely responsive and precise, and this is paired with a high end haptic motor to produce click sensations. Finally, their surface is oleophobic glass which reduces friction. This all combines to produce a great experience, but I’m positive that they cost notably more than the typical plastic diving board fare, and most laptop manufacturers are squeezing out margin with cheaper parts wherever they can.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#458

Post by makeitdouble »

brachkow wrote: post #404
makeitdouble wrote: post #260

> two thousand Euros There is a lot of weight put into this number...and it seems that everyone forgot why US makers prices have inflated to this point. It's not to polish the "premium" experience, it's tariffs spread on the whole customer base.

Laptops are compared to other laptops availiable on market. Apple sells a entry line of their premium laptops at 1000$. And these are VERY good laptops.

Setting aside opinions about the product, the first 16" mac is around 2849 euros in the EU

https://www.apple.com/be-fr/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-pouc...

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#459

Post by zamadatix »

bee_rider wrote: post #452
goku12 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody. Judging reparability and serviceability the same way as you do with other features is absurd, to put it charitably! It is one feature that you rarely use, but brings you huge value when you do use it. You don't realize how much savings we used to extract by progressively upgrading t…

Isn’t “reuse the PSU” kind of a tempting trap? I though it was—a cheap part that can take down the rest of your expensive system. I though the advice was to get a new one with each build…

A quality PSU can often last 10 years and multiple builds. Quality in this case just means "has things like over voltage protection, proper wiring included, decent caps, and decent voltage regulation" not "was really expensive". E.g. that $140 85 W Seasonic Focus tier is quality in this regard, the $80 no-name 850 W PSU is what people warn about, and the $400 Seasonic Prime titanium rated PSU is mostly for those scrutinizing VRM designs or wattage limits on the cables to the GPU for their overclock goals.

It's common to upgrade your PSU anyways though as it seems like parts wattages only go up over the years (particularly for the +12v rails) or one may want to cycle out the old system completely for reuse/resale. Generic advice (since most people buy cheapo no name PSUs and upgrade rarely) might be to say to replace just to be on the good side of every situation... but if you're one that knows you got a quality PSU or likes to upgrade your build every other CPU generation, then swapping out the PSU every time is likely a waste.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#460

Post by makeitdouble »

swiftcoder wrote: post #445
Spooky23 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screens are dramatically better than a few years ago and have been advancing if you care about and shop for the feature. Trackpads are slowly sucking less. Most people only see this in MacBook Pros, but the other manufacturers have excellent screens that are often hidden behind customization options and complex models/branding. I have a framework and love it, but it’s a computer made for a specific purpose that doesn…

> Trackpads are slowly sucking less This is an oddity of the PC laptop market I have never understood - Mac trackpads from a decade ago are still better than a top-of-the-line PC trackpad from the current year. The only thing Apple has done in that decade is make their trackpads slightly bigger (and made the click haptic rather than physical), so it feels like the PC folks should have caught up by now...

Apple pours all they have into making their trackpad the best it can be, including working from the OS to the UX to the SDKs.

It's sailant when using the Magic Trackpad on Windows: the acceleration curves don't match, the keyboard combinations are less natural, the gestures clunkier and the overall advantage of the trackpad is I think lesser. Mouses are a better fit on windows in every respects IMHO.

Post reply on HN