Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#451

Post by SllX » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 10:31 AM UTC

MangoToupe wrote: post #439

SllX wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no respect due to Beijing or the Chairman Winnie the Pooh regime on this issue. Taiwan is an independent country.

> Taiwan is an independent country. Taiwan is an island. It is still China. It is impossible to both give deference to the ROC and say otherwise.

Nobody is giving them more deference than the other. In a perfect world, the ROC would be the one and only surviving entity from this mess and the PRC would be a relic of history.

That isn’t what the facts on the ground are though. The ROC no more has sovereign jurisdiction over the mainland than the PRC does over Taiwan. Which is to say that at this point they are functionally separate sovereign nations independent of each other, regardless of the claims by either the PRC or the ROC. Or put another way, the way I did the first fucking time: Taiwan is an independent nation.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#452

Post by jack_tripper » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 10:55 AM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #408

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As you say, if you can work remotely, it may be fine but it's a different situation from working in a hub of whatever your specialty is. The question is: is that actually a problem with Japanese work culture? That would be a large problem in US work culture because there's no loyalty from your employer, so you have to be prepared to find a new job at any moment. But it certainly used to be the case that if you work…

Well, many of those BigCorps simply went out of business over the years. Kodak in Rochester was a pretty good bet until it wasn't. Not so much culture as business realities. Japan has been more stable in that regard. More stability but probably also fewer real opportunities.

The successor to Kodak is Eastman chemicals which is doing quite well.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#453

Post by aljgz » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 12:19 PM UTC

traceroute66 wrote: post #342

ricardobeat wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is already catching up. They have a desktop-sized 14nm EUV machine, and Xiami is setting up a 3nm manufacturing line, both entirely with local tech. Thanks USA for the export ban.

> China is already catching up. Sure of course, just like COMAC vs Airbus/Boeing, BYD vs Western EVs etc. But this is a bit different IMHO. First there's still a lot of catching-up to do. And second are they going to be able to gain sufficient marketshare in the Western market ? I am thinking here, both in terms of displacing ASML and in terms of Western companies being willing to depend on Chinese tech for such crit…

Selling chips or chip manufacturing equipment is one of the many ways to get a return on this investment.

There's a whole hierarchy of products and services that benefit from this. At any level that there is a ban/preference to not use Chinese products it translates to a lower price for the same technology, which feeds into the domestic market for dependent tech.

Nobody buys their chips? They build data centers and sell computation as service. That does not sell enough? Domestic R&D now has an edge, creating momentum for medicine, agriculture, consumer products, weapons.

You can ban a small country for a long time, or a large country for a small time, but not large for long

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#454

Post by monooso » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 1:02 PM UTC

jack_tripper wrote: post #409

TulliusCicero wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why's everyone scaremongering about China?" *reasons given for China being an actual threat* "Ah, but who's to say anything's illegal really, am I right??"

> reasons given for China being an actual threat I never said they weren't a threat, I said they haven't done anything illegal. But with the reasons you gave, then the US is an even bigger threat to my country. > "Ah, but who's to say anything's illegal really, am I right??" You still haven't answered my question and are beating it around the bush with silly jokes. And you know the answer, you just don't like to say…

I don't disagree with your general argument, but I do have a small nitpick with this:

> If nobody can hold you accountable and punish you for it, then it's legal.

Just because someone isn't punished for an act doesn't make the act legal. I think a more accurate description of the behaviour of certain countries is "if you can get away with it, who cares if it's legal."

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#455

Post by TulliusCicero » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:19 PM UTC

jack_tripper wrote: post #409

TulliusCicero wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why's everyone scaremongering about China?" *reasons given for China being an actual threat* "Ah, but who's to say anything's illegal really, am I right??"

> reasons given for China being an actual threat I never said they weren't a threat, I said they haven't done anything illegal. But with the reasons you gave, then the US is an even bigger threat to my country. > "Ah, but who's to say anything's illegal really, am I right??" You still haven't answered my question and are beating it around the bush with silly jokes. And you know the answer, you just don't like to say…

It's illegal, but that's inconvenient to your narrative, so you'd rather play definitional games like this.

"Nothing's illegal in war, bro!"

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#456

Post by ta20240528 » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:24 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #324

Macha wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does China need something competitive to an a320neo^2 or is something competitive with a 737ng enough given they can pressure domestic airlines into buying it and undercut their way into more sticker price sensitive markets? That’s already a big loss for the duopoly, and I mean there are 717s and similar still flying

> or is something competitive with a 737ng enough given they can pressure domestic airlines into buying it and undercut their way into more sticker price sensitive markets Potentially, but previous attempts (like the Xian MA60 and MA600, which are derivatives of the designed in the 1960s An-24) have been very unsuccessful. It made some sales in Southeast Asia and Africa, but a few of those have had accompanying corru…

"so legally the jet can't even fly anywhere else other than China for now."

Or countries could just accept Chinese type certification alongside the FAA, EASE, and TC certificates. Granted, it would only be for domestic or regional flights at most - but that's a lot.

Which is what Nigeria is considering with the C919.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#457

Post by ta20240528 » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:34 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #176

jabron wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Nazi Germany and the PRC in any way is certainly an interesting choice, considering they're the one major power in the world that actually doesn't have a recent history of invading sovereign nations.

Come again? Tibet was absolutely a sovereign nation. I guess it depends what you mean by "recent", but the colonization is still underway, daily. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War

'Tibet was absolutely a sovereign nation. I guess it depends what you mean by "recent"'

The rest of the world notes from afar that Hawaii became a US state in 1959, whilst Tibet entered the PRC way back in 1951.

In 1993, the US congress apologised for this - they didn't give it back :)

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#458

Post by ghaff » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 2:41 PM UTC

jack_tripper wrote: post #452

ghaff wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, many of those BigCorps simply went out of business over the years. Kodak in Rochester was a pretty good bet until it wasn't. Not so much culture as business realities. Japan has been more stable in that regard. More stability but probably also fewer real opportunities.

The successor to Kodak is Eastman chemicals which is doing quite well.

Kodak actually spun out their chemical company quite a while before things really went south with film. The real problem was that Kodak had a huge film-related consumables business and, to a first approximation, that just went away.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#459

Post by ExoticPearTree » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 4:01 PM UTC

jack_tripper wrote: post #322

alephnerd wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actively disrespecting other countries who worked hard on developing such capabilities and assuming European nations should be on the "big boys table" is what is so jarring. Nothing stopped European nations like Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy, etc from continuing to invest in domestic capacity 20 years ago, but most of their IP is now developed in American, Indian, or other Asian subsidiaries or JVs. Ju…

>Actively disrespecting other countries who worked hard on developing such capabilities and assuming European nations should be on the "big boys table" is what is so jarring. Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, as there was no disrespecting anyone there with my comment, and I basically agree with your point. That doesn't change that people here want those cutting edge manufacturing and job opportunities the US has…

> Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, as there was no disrespecting anyone there with my comment, and I basically agree with your point.

Not you. The EU. They are disrespecting pretty much anyone.

Re: Japan's gamble to turn island of Hokkaido into global chip hub

#460

Post by sofixa » Tue, Nov 25, 2025, 4:08 PM UTC

ta20240528 wrote: post #456

sofixa wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or is something competitive with a 737ng enough given they can pressure domestic airlines into buying it and undercut their way into more sticker price sensitive markets Potentially, but previous attempts (like the Xian MA60 and MA600, which are derivatives of the designed in the 1960s An-24) have been very unsuccessful. It made some sales in Southeast Asia and Africa, but a few of those have had accompanying corru…

"so legally the jet can't even fly anywhere else other than China for now." Or countries could just accept Chinese type certification alongside the FAA, EASE, and TC certificates. Granted, it would only be for domestic or regional flights at most - but that's a lot. Which is what Nigeria is considering with the C919.

That's what happened with the Xian MA60, but it was still a disaster due to supply chain complexities. Even the relatively established UAC (Russia) couldn't handle the supply chain and maintenance of their most recent SSJ-100, even to friendly countries (Cuba) or close by European ones (Ireland).